Zimmerman:
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]
911 dispatcher:
He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.
Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]
911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:
He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.
He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK.
911 dispatcher:
We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]
911 dispatcher:
OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.
He’s running. [2:08]
911 dispatcher:
He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]
911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?
Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
[It sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, ‘F-ing coons’ at 2:22]
NOTE:
- [Listen here at 1:17 for CNN’s edited frame]
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman:
George. He ran.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman:
Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher:
What’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman:
407-435-2400
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]
Zimmerman:
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.
911 dispatcher:
OK, what’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman:
It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, that’s no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number … you’ve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, I’ve got it. 435-2400?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
You’re welcome.
Call ends 4:07
Above was a transcription of Zimmerman’s call to 911 moments before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. It was transcribed to the best of the transcriber’s abilities, and is not meant to replace any official transcript of the call.
You can listen to the call here from 0:01 to 4:07.
Phoebe's Detention Room 
Reblogged this on That Mr. G Guy's Blog and commented:
Here’s an unofficial transcript of George Zimmerman’s 911 call before the shooting took place
George Zimmerman did not make a 911 call. He called the non emergency phone line. Please people when facts and even small facts are misquoted it makes a very different impact and how internet rumor gets started.
Came back with something from the court transcript:
O’MARA: And you would have gotten that from the 911 tape that has been heard?
GILBREATH: The non-emergency tape, yes.
So right there we know that Zimmerman called on the non emergency line.
Veronica, nobody cares anymore. It’s Over!!!
At what time was this call to the police made?
7:09 – 7:13
Thank you Stephen.
I don’t know. Why?
Pingback: Trayvon Martin Case - Page 7 - The Warpath
Thanks Warpath for the mention on your forum.
http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47118-trayvon-martin-case-7.html#post904241
All you sports fans, get over there and see what’s going on. You can also see what others are saying about this issue.
Pingback: Yak Corral - Page 56 - dBforums
Thanks for the link back Yak Corral.
Wish I had had the link to your forum when I had my forum up, it would have helped me tremendously.
Why do parts of your transcript vary from others? For example Mother Jones. Check out related articles by the Examiner in SC.
Sorry, I didn’t respond, must have missed it.
Maybe Mother Jones transcribed their own in a way to favor their cause. Just sayin’ since I didn’t read their version.
Sounds like Zimmerman said “Fu*king Punks” when he was running.
That’s what I heard too.
u sounds nothing like oo – zimmerman said coons
Why is it assumed he was running? Trayvon was running and he lost track of him. That is why he stated he was never where they heard running. He was upset the police was always late and the last time he called the guy did commit a burglary and got away. His name was Burgess. They did catch him but after the fact and only because Zimmerman knew who he was and sure enough. He had items from the burglary in his possession.
Pingback: Daily Kos: The Rest of Zimmerman’s 911 Call | Planet News
Thank you for the track back. I’ve enjoyed reading your blog for a long time now.
There’s a lynch mob out there and death threats directed at Zimmerman. Is it vindictiveness or irresponsibility to publish his address and phone number?
I believe it is irresponsible but I didn’t publish it, this is the transcript from the 911 call that is readily accessible to anyone, it is the Sanford PD that has been irresponsible.
I think putting out a contract on this man is madness and those who did it, the black panthers, should be arrested, if it were you or I we would have been. The justice system needs to run it’s course, not vigilante justice, we are a system of laws, not lawlessness.
I do not advocate vigilantism but are you ever naive Phoebe. A system of law not lawlessness eh? What law does the practice of targeting those ‘driving while black’ fall under Phoebe? Can you please tell me that or have you never heard of the phrase? By the way, that is only one of many. How nice it is to be of that race for whom the law is always dealt fairly, but please do not assume to know how that dealing occurs for all Americans.
@chaz You’re the naive one to think that only blacks get targeted. Whites get targeted for many reasons also. You’re also naive in thinking that whites are always dealt with fairly. I’ve been discriminated against more times then I can shake a stick at.
One example: White woman gets wrongly arrested, held down and stripped by 4 or 5 officers, male and female.\
Another example: White male wrongly arrested, stripped searched and locked up for 6 days even though they figured out they had the wrong man within hours.
Want more examples?
Hell, I was stopped during my drivers test because they thought I stole the car I was taking my test in. Needless to say, I didn’t get my license that time.
Anyway, I’m tired of the poor “black is me” argument. You might want to look at your own culture and figure out that it makes the reputation that it has earned.
I’m not by any stretch of the imagination anti black, I know and have known many decent people that are black and have actually seen some of them being discriminated against but they held their heads ups proudly and made their way against the odds, many of us have had to do just that regardless of skin color.
Regardless of any plight of the blacks that are perceived or real, it doesn’t give anyone the right to take justice into their own hands. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the black panthers are a terrorist group and need to be arrested for the crap they pull but ….because they are black, under this administration, they don’t face any consequences.
This is an important discussion for both sides, maybe if we talked more we would understand how the other one feels, I hope you come back and continue it.
Wow! You are in serious need of taking a course or two on the history of the blackman in America! Even today, blacks are born with one hand tied behind their back and ten feet behind the starting line! Who decided to discriminate against blacks? Who decided to give them welfare so that they could come to depend on it and not look for or struggle to find a way out? And you have the nerve to think that his social status is self-inflicted?! Please!
WoW!! You are in serious need of some common sense.
“Who decided to give them welfare so that they could come to depend on it and not look for or struggle to find a way out?” That sounds pretty racist to me. Maybe they see welfare as reparations. The choice is theirs, no one, except themselves, are keeping the poor black man down, it’s up to them to get the ambition to break the chains that supposedly bind them. The same could be said for whites also.
I didn’t say the social status is self inflicted, what I said was the black culture that is prevalent today earns the reputation for all blacks but they don’t take responsibility for their fellow black men and women. Poor or rich, doesn’t matter, they have a large element of their race that don’t adhere to the rules of society, they were brought up to feel entitled and angry, it’s the race that hasn’t done anything to stop the hatred. I didn’t raise my kids to hate all black people so don’t raise your kids to hate all whites.
There is a small segment of whites that are truly prejudice but most of us don’t feel that way, we’re just angry at the entitlement that blacks feel they deserve because a hundred years or so ago whites had slaves, sold to them, btw, by other blacks.
I don’t need to be an expert on black history, all I need to know is how blacks act now and I do get angry about affirmative action, I do get angry about proud welfare trash, I do get angry about flash mobs, I do get angry when blacks riot, I do get angry that there is a black history month that my children have to endure because it is meant to promote white guilt and there’s nothing we, that are alive today, can do about it, shit happens, move on. It has always amazed me that we can have black history month but teach that confederate history is something that we should be ashamed of.
I’m a white yankee woman living in the south and, in the south, I am I one step below blacks on the totem pole. Being a woman automatically garners disrespect in the south, put on top of that the Yankee factor and I’m screwed but you know what, I don’t use it as an excuse. I am viewed as the enemy in the south as if I started the war, I’m viewed as the enemy among blacks as if I was responsible for slavery, I was not a party to either so stop trying to make me out the bad guy. When it comes down to it, woman are more discriminated against than blacks, blacks got the right to vote before women, where are my reparations for being treated as a second class citizen for all those years.
Where is all this anger towards me coming from? If you’ve read any of my other posts you will see that I believe that it was right that Zimmerman was charged, albeit I think he was overcharged, that Trayvon was doing nothing wrong and didn’t deserve to die. I’m on the side of fair, not black or white or hispanic.
Boo hoo! Please! If being a White woman in the South garners disrespect, you can move and gain respect! Being Black, however, garners disdain throughout the USA and to move does not cure the problem!
A little background on me might be in order here. I have a BA in Social Psychology and have studied racial matters for decades. I am a 71 year old Black man who has experienced overt and subtle racism . I know from wherein I speak–from experience!
Oh great, just what I need first thing today, an angry old black man reading me the riot act.
Out of my extremely long comment, all you can take away from it is my being a white woman in the south? How about you dispute some of the other comments I made in it, or maybe you can’t because they are indisputable.
You, yourself, said that the black man was given welfare and it entitled them to sit on their assess with no ambition to better themselves. Who’s fault is it?
Who’s fault is it that they keep popping out babies, with who knows how many different baby daddies, they can’t afford just to get more welfare? Who’s fault is it that they condition their children to become the next generation of welfare bums?
I realize that blacks haven’t always had it easy but stop blaming the white man for all your woes. As a Psychologist you should know that people need to take personal responsibility.
So, it’s the fault of someone who is born with a foot on his neck, eh? Liasten! If the system traps you in with no way to better yourself, then it is tough to emerge from that. Do you know that the illiteracy rate among blacks is where they get their venacular because they mispronounce words based on the way they think they should be? I’ll give you an old Red Foxx Joke to give you an idea of what i mean: “This guy was filling out a job application and it said ‘when can you start to work?’ and the guy asked his friend ‘How do you spell rat?’ and the guy said ‘rat’ and he said ‘No, I mean rat now.'”
People can easily become complacent and lack motivation when given handouts and are rewarded for having more babies. To them, that is income without having to get a job. Why work when you only get maybe an addition meager income for doing so? Which, by the way, is nullified when you consider the tradeoff, such as the cost of transportation, daycare, medical expenses, etc.
Again I ask, who’s fault is it? You’re justifying the existence of welfare bums. It’s nice to see that you’re agreeing with me that blacks keep having babies for more rewards, it’s the first thing you’ve agreed with me on.
You ask, why work, how about for self respect and dignity, it’s not nullified when that’s the trade off.
As a professional, it is demeaning for you to justify why people don’t have ambition and motivation, you lose respect. Therein lies the problem, it’s up to you and the many, many others who have had success to stop coddling the lazy welfare trash and demand that they step up, demand that black parents teach their kids if they want something bad enough they work for it. Demand that parents keep their kids in school and teach them to strive for the things that are attainable. Demand that parents teach their kids that it’s not acceptable to terrorize whole neighborhoods and communities. The illiteracy rates among blacks is their own fault, the fault of the parents for not teaching their kids values.
There will never be racial harmony as long as the successful blacks don’t step up to the plate. It’s blacks who keep blacks down and angry. You have continued the tradition of blacks failing to take responsibility and to always blame someone else.
I beg to differ with you that there are more whites on the welfare rolls and you erred in saying children on welfare, the children aren’t on welfare the parents are.
Black on white crime is far more prevalent than white on black as is black on black crime.
By your comments you agree with everything I’ve said, you have disputed none of it but justify it to make whitey to blame. Shame on you!
Look up “Projection” and the “Looking glass self.” Also Google the facts on the numbers demographics on the Welfare roles. Sure, it’s easy to blame the one who has has a foot on their neck by saying that he isn’t struggling hard enough to get it off!
I thought I was done with my rant but apparently not so. I have to add something here…
There’s been a lot of talk about abortion clinics being purposely put in the downtown areas so that blacks would access to them. They were put in the downtown areas because downtown areas are centrally located, it’s just a fluke that blacks live in the downtown areas, You rarely see blacks in rural areas so do they live in downtown areas so they will be closer to services that they survive on?
Fact is, abortion clinics would starve to deth if they had to depend on black business! It is like Welfare in which most people on it are whites and children.
Why is everyone making this a race case? What is the proof? Phoebe’s statement is correct, regarless of race. Lynch mobs are not the answer no matter what your history is, be it Native American, African American, Hispanic, Jewish, or whatever.
the NEW Black Panther Party (they are different from the Black Panthers) offered a $10,000 bounty for the “citizen’s arrest” – another group, not affiliated, was asking for his head.
@Just the Facts, it was about race as soon as Zimmerman thought he was suspicious. what was it about him that was suspicious? many people in this country think all blacks who aren’t wearing suits and ties are suspicious. blacks are perceived as unintelligent, thugs, entertainers and/or athletes. if everything was reversed, Martin would have been arrested.
@Ninjas No, I think you are wrong. Why can’t someone be suspicious of someone regardless of color? And you were not there observing whatever behavior Zimmerman witnessed. I’m suspicious of people all of the time, and guess what, they are usually white. We have a park across our street. On the weekends the teenagers like to hang out there and the lighting is bad. Most of the time I let them be, but I will take walks just so they know I am there, as we have lots of grafitti and drug use there. A lot of times they just see me coming and take off. Is that wrong? I have called police before too when I suspect things just aren’t right. Is that wrong? I don’t know Zimmerman, so can’t say one way or the other, but it seems one of his best friends is black and came out to defend him. Also looks like he mentored young blacks. Also, as it’s be reported, Zimmerman called 911 around 48 times over so many years. What was the color of those people? Isn’t interesting that no media outlet has reported on this? Perhaps they have the info and know that all of these calls were for people of a variety of color. Of course, that wouldn’t help continue to have a hot “race” topic. You can’t say this was racially motivated. You just can’t.
Amen Phoebe. Well said, and right on the money.
Mayo, you seem to really hate welfare. You vote Republican, yes? Because it’s the Democrats who jam as much funding into welfare as possible, largely in an effort to court black voters (and other disadvantaged voters) while Republicans make largely the same argument you have. In the past I have made the same argument you did or a similar one, suggesting a possible reform that would only provide some kind of “work match” welfare to those on it for an extended period. However, with an unemployment rate of 15% and the total federal debt at nearly double the GDP due to a five trillion dollar debt having doubled under Bush and then having added another five trillion in Obama’s first three years, that’s not a plan that could be implemented currently.
Anyway, that’s all OT. As for Zimmerman and Martin, I think some things are pretty telling in the full call. Zimmerman is clearly parked and not following in his truck, as has been stated constantly. Zimmerman is suspicious of Martin because Martin is strolling around checking out the houses; NOT heading back to his father’s girlfriend’s house. Martin then becomes suspicious of Zimmerman (who is watching him) and breaks into a run. Zimmerman gets out to follow him, but loses track. This is why he doesn’t give his address; he doesn’t want to face possible retaliation or theft from Martin, who he believes to be (one of) the perpetrator(s) of a recent string of burglaries in the community. Zimmerman says “he’s running” and is following Martin, doesn’t give out his address because he lost track of him and (as I stated above, doesn’t want Martin to hear it), and says he will meet the officers at the mailboxes. He asks the dispatch to have the officers call him when they’re near. By the time the officer arrived, the fight was over and Martin was dead. Zimmerman had a broken nose, black eyes, laceration on his scalp, and grass stains on his jacket.
What I want to know is, did the officers call Zimmerman? If so, where is THAT transcript? Did he answer? Did it go to voicemail? If the officer called Zimmerman seconds before the fight, and Zimmerman said “yeah, I’m getting in my truck”, and then the call cut out, that could be important. As could GPS tracking evidence if available; although it’s not an exact locator, it may show Zimmerman’s north/south movement effectively enough to make the case as to whether he was heading back to his truck.
You can read the full official police report here https://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/full-police-report-on-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/
It would be nice if we started commenting on that post given it has the latest factual police report and we can comment on fact rather than conjecture. Not being personal towards anyone, just sayin’.
sorry when the police told him he didn’t need to follow them he brought it onto himself…too bad if it publishes his address and his number
The police dispatcher (often not a police officer, don’t knnow specifics in this case) said “we don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman, who is clearly running at this point if you listen to the call, stops running. Significant change in breathing.
Pingback: Trayvon Martin Shooting In Florida. - Page 67
Thanks for the trackback.
Thanks for the unedited version of the Zimmerman 911 call. Now, what we need is one of the lady’s who had the screams and shooting so that we can compare the time lapse between Zimmerman’s call and her’s.
The one here is edited.
According to the http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/29/1078912/-The-Rest-of-Zimmerman-s-911-Call
Zimmerman’s 911 call lasted for 4:07 minutes.
Trayvon was talking on his cell phone with his girlfriend when she heard Trayvon ask “Why are you following me?” That happened within a minute of Trayvon’s death.
Her cell phone records show that the call began @ 7:12 p.m. After Zimmerman’s 911 call, the Dispatcher received 911 calls reporting screams and gunshot(s), one where you can hear both the screams and the gunshot.
At 7:17p.m., as Officer Smith responds to original 911 call, he arrives on the scene and receives another call from dispatch about gunshot(s) being fired. The police report shows that he arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/…
Yea…he wants dispatch yo give the cops his number because he is chasing this little boy and doesn’t plan on NOT chasing him! He has a cut on his friggin head because he fell on his fat ass trying to subdue the child! We aren’t falling for this cap…and I am WHITE!!
White and an ass
no Mike, the ass is Zimmerman and the Sanford police. Seek some Tim Wise.
How come your transcript left off the dispatcher asking if Travon was white, Black, or hispanic. Its just like the MSNBC one and has been altered to make it sound as Zimmerman just offered the info of race. You should be ashamed using something that been altered.
Sorry I need to correct myself I read it again and the dispatcher did ask and your is the correct one.
Thank you for correcting yourself. I have a link to listen at the end of the post to the actual call so that everyone could read and hear and judge for themselves.
Why did you underline some of the text?
I didn’t, that’s the way it was when I copied and pasted it.
Wow. Why does the media blow this up. Just reading the whole transcript seems clear to me. Zimm had lost sight of Martin, and was going to meet police at his truck.Nuf said. Lots of people say Zimm was the aggressor and chased Martin down. Yes, but seems clear to me that Martin then did his own chasing of Zimmerman. And the only eye witness we have says Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him while Zimmerman called for help. I am so tired of the media hype and misinformation.
It doesn’t look to me like Zimmerman was going to meet police at his truck. If he was going to do that, he would’ve let the dispatcher tell them that,but instead he told her to have the police call him so he could tell them where he was.
He didn’t want to say his address out loud because he lost sight of the kid and did not want to risk having the kid pay him a visit. did I spell it out all right for you? Did you go to school? Try reading comprehension before you talk out of your ass.
Msartin chasing Zimmerman, is that a fact? No. Quire an imagination you have there. Stick to just the facts please.
Bagworm, you are not following, so let me baby feed it to you:
1. We know Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin, at least through the end of the 911 call
2. Based on the 911 call we know Zimmerman was not chasing Martin when he first ran, as Zimmerman was in his truck
3. Whatever Martin was doing made him appear to be on drugs or something with his hand in his wasteband
4. Zimmerman only chased Martin for approximately 20s, but again, after Martin had already ran, per 911 call
5. Zimmerman lost Martin per the 911 call
6. Per Zimmerman’s input he was confronted from behind by Martin. Is this last part true? Don’t know, but it is consistent with with everyting I heard in the call.
The above are facts.
1. We know Zimmerman stopped chasing Martin, at least through the end of the 911 call
Now just show me where Zimmerman says that Martin was chasing him, don’t dodge this question since you are about “The Facts”. As far as I’ve read there is no where that Zimmerman says Trayvon chased him.
2. Based on the 911 call we know Zimmerman was not chasing Martin when he first ran, as Zimmerman was in his truck
Trayvon was over 130 yards from where Zimmerman claims to have originally seem him at the clubhouse at 1111 Retreat View Circle when he was killed. How far would you say that Zimmerman followed this suspicious person until he disappeared behind a building, Trayvon had a head start and George only ran a short amount of time as you have stated, please don’t doge this question.
3. Whatever Martin was doing made him appear to be on drugs or something with his hand in his wasteband.
From what I see on the timeline and from Trayvon’s phone records it would seem that that was the approximate time that Trayvon called his girlfriend since records seem to indicate that Trayvon had called his girlfriend after George stopped to “Eye Rape” him.
4. Zimmerman only chased Martin for approximately 20s, but again, after Martin had already ran, per 911 call
Once again, Trayvon was over 130 yards from where Zimmerman originally saw him at 1111 Retreat View Circle as per his 011 call. What facts do you use to determine how George covered this distance during this amount of time, what are the facts?
5. Zimmerman lost Martin per the 911 call.
There are only three streets in this neighborhood Retreat View Circle, Long Oak Way and Twin Trees. The addresses of both George and Trayvon were both on the same stret. Trayvon was staying down the street and around the corner from George.
George saw Trayvon running down Twin Trees and disappear behind a building and either cut behind the West end of the building off of Twin Trees or went around the other end which would put George on Long Oak Way and heading off Trayvon trying to get home.
6. Per Zimmerman’s input he was confronted from behind by Martin. Is this last part true? Don’t know, but it is consistent with with everyting I heard in the call.
What fact do you have to support this, Were you there? Or is this something that you were exposed to in the media or is it a product of your Imagination.
Even if you knew George personally you would be having to take his word for it. Did you actually see this happen?
I promise not to judge you until you respond. Please account for the times and places that you are referring to and give your sources of information if you were not an actual eye witness since you are all about the facts.
Go roll up into a ball and blow yourself.
Mayo, you’re cool even if you misunderstand some of my posts, I’m a tattooed up, long haired white guy. I was born in 1961 and I’ve heard guys like you talk about when they could put the dogs on you and that was when things were getting better in the 60’s.
I live in Texas and have a comcealed carry permit, here we generally consider chasing people an aggressive, harrasing behavior. White people can’t even chase white people anymore like before the nigras done took over.
I would like you to weigh in on my comments phoebe.
Bagworm, I don’t think you are thinking clearly, but let me resond.
1. Fine, bad choice of words. Zimmerman said Martin came at him from behind. Happy now?
2. So, what is your reference for being 130 yards from where Zimmerman first saw Martin? Please share. But, let me address it if you believe this to be true. If you look a the 911 take, there is more than 2 full minutes from when Zimmerman said Martin started to run and when the call ended. So, the fact that Martin was only 130 yards away after 2 minutes only supports that Martin came back to Zimmerman from behind. Heck, I can I can run 130yards in less than 20s, which by the way is roughly the time Zimmerman chased Martin per the 911 call.
3. You did not address 3. Zimmerman saw what he percieved to be suspicious behavior and has nothing to do with whatever you were trying to get at wiht #3.
4. See number 2. You are saying someone can’t cover 130yards in 20s? Again, only better supports Zimmerman’s account.
5. Again, you did not address the fact that on the call Zimmerman indicates he lost him and didn’t even want to say his address out loud.
6. I suggest you re-read what I wrote. I say cleary say I don’t know if that actually happened, only that is what Zimmerman as indicated and I have yet to see evidence that suggests I should brand him a liar.
Now, everything I am saying is based on the 911 tape only, except for #6. What are you using to formulate your opinions? Now, what was that about you blowing yourself?
@bagworm-More for you to chew on. As I said, I don’t like to put a bunch of stock into these kind of reports, but this one incates 35yards, not the 130 you indicate. Also poses some interesting questions that I alluded to, such as why was Martin still so close to Zimmerman in the first place.
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony
@Bagworm, What do you want me to say? If I agree with you then we’d both be wrong.
If anyone is walking and someone drive up in a truck following you, you will run, change direction or at the ver least be suspicious. The FACT that this guy followed this guy he suspected to have a gun, and he himself had a gun speaks volume. Someone was going to, at the very least get shot, and the FACT IS someone died because of the same vigilante justice persona Zimmerman took upon himself. Of course now people who are angry and personally connected to this child should not think of such justice in their own hands but it was ok for Zimmerman to do so without any personal provoked cause. Who follows someone you suspect to have a gun that you also suspect to be up to no good unless your balls and ego is as big as the moon?
actually, thats not the whole story. the girl martin was on the phone with said she heard trayvon confronting george, whereas george claims he was caught unawares by trayvons violence. also, neighbors heard what they believe were cries for help from a young person (high pitch), which if true, would suggest george had already gotten the upperhand in whatever conflict he was engaged in, and killed martin anyway. again, its important to keep in mind that GEORGE WAS PURSUING TRAYVON WITH A GUN READY, despite not having seen him do ANYTHING criminal. trayvon had every right to feel concerned that he was being followed; as you can hear in the 911 call, george submits that trayvon looked at him at one point.
No. That is where media has caused this story to go crazy. From initial report:
“More than a month after the shooting, the Orlando Sentinel, citing “authorities” as its source of information, reported that Zimmerman told police that he had lost sight of Martin after trying to follow him and that he was returning to his vehicle when Martin confronted him.”
Or, how about this one?
“In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.”
Zimmerman confirms that he was “confronted” by Martin and they “exchanged” words.
AND,
“One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.”
There’s a few things your missing.
1. Zimmerman telling dispatcher to have the police call him and he’d tell them where he was implies that he was NOT going to be at the mailboxes.
2. It’s indisputable that he had a conversation with Trayvon and had every opportunity to identify himself but chose not to. If he had identified himself as neighborhood watch the altercation may not have taken place.
3. Who wouldn’t be upset with a strange man following them? Stranger Danger!!!
4. Under the “stand your ground law”, you can not claim self defense if you instigated the confrontation.
Now carry on guys, you duke it out. I’ll be interested in seeing who the victor will be. 😀
Hey Phoebe.
1. If you actually read the transcript Zimmerman did not want to say his address out loud because he lost sight of the kid and did not want said kid to accidentally catch his address.
2. No one is disputing it.
3. If it’s stranger danger, then why did Trayvon come back?
4. See #3 for who instigated what.
Thats the problem with most people. It’s selective reading for most of you dumbasses.
compared to the eyewitness..they are both young men. Martin’s dad even said thats not my son. at least until the lawyers talked to him
Quote: ” GEORGE WAS PURSUING TRAYVON WITH A GUN READY”
Where do you get this bit of mis-information from? 1st yes Zimmerman had a gun but one can be pretty much certain that it was holstered and concealed the entire time up until the point where Zimmerman shot Martin. If it wasn’t then that would mean that Martin would have had to have been the stupidest person in the world to walk up on and then attack a man that was open carrying a firearm.
My guess and assumption is that the gun wasn’t pulled until after zimmerman was knocked on the ground with Martin already on top of him.
To Phoebe53. For your 4 points, here is my response.
1. No, I took that to me he would help guide them to where he was.
2. I get your point, but I can just as easily say that if Martin had not come back to find Zimmerman an altercation may not have happened. Or, if Martin had not punched him an altercation may not have taken place. And think about it. Let’s say you observe someone suspicious, lose sight of him because he runs, and then he reappears and confronts you? You really going to say “Hey, I am a voluteer watchman”. I think there is a surprise factor. If you believe Zimmerman, he says Martin confronted and asked if he had a problem. Is “I’m a watchman” the first thing that comes to mind?
3. So what? He should have ran, and kept running. You make it sound like he was justified for coming back to confront Zimmerman. And, if that is the case, I see Martin as the agressor. But, this is what I don’t get. Is Zimmerman still in his truck during this call? He says ” He’s here now … he’s just staring”, then follows that with “Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.” And then “Yep, he’s coming to check me out.” That doesn’t sound like a strang man hunting down a defensefess child. Finally, Martin runs, which is what he should have done.
4. See #3 above. Who instigated the “confrontation”.
For #1 above, I mean I take has helping guide to the mailboxes, where Zimmerman will be.
That’s how I took that as well. I took it as Zimmerman wanted the Officers to call him when they got in the area so that he can guide them to where he would be waiting. Which one presumes would be by the mail boxes.
Thank you for posting this unredacted version. It has been helpful with enabling me to reach an educated opionion on the matter.
Pingback: THIS JUST IN on the Zimmerman case.... - Page 20 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Zimmerman had NUMEROUS chances to “self defend”. He chose the adrenaline route. He chose to “check him out”. He chose to boost his ego and monitor the world without any authority, no education, no training, no compassion. Why isn’t he volunteering at local clubs, schools to help guide, tutor, mentor, encourage, inspire, and lift up our children, not stalk and murder them.
Actually he did tutor and mentor young black kids. I don’t see it as murder, with all the info I have at this point I think he should be charged with manslaughter.
Jennifer, you are precisely how this kind of thing takes on a story of its. How do you know has not education, no training? And compassion? You really think you can say he has no compassion? What is wrong with you? As the first reply said, he did tutor young black kids. And not only that, he continued to do it after the funding was pulled from the program. But, I can’t verify this, I only read it. You have to be careful what you read in the media, which is why the 911 transcript tells the best story. And why do everyone get on Zimmerman for trying to protect his neighborhood and report suspicious behavior? I assume you are familiar with the Penn State child molestation story. In that one, Penn State, Joe Paterno, and others were and are ridiculed because they did not do enough. I tend to agree with that, but when someone does try to do the right thing, and then gets attacked ( my belief) he defends himself and gets called a murderer by people like you. That is absurb!!!!
For you to say that Zimmerman has no education or training you might want to look at Flordia’s requirements for a Conceled carry license:
(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;
2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or
7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor; A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;
Plus Zimmermang was studying to be a a policeman.
I’m not sure he was studying to be a policeman, he was a wannabe. His past record of assaulting a police officer would most likely preclude him from ever becoming one.
I stand corrected. http://www.complex.com/city-guide/2012/03/sanford-police-chief-was-dean-at-college-that-expelled-george-zimmerman
I am so tired of the media hyping this up. The worst offender is CNN. I look at other news sites and see nothing. I look at CNN and this continues to be one of the headlines, carried on by sensationalizing speculation with no facts. I simply don’t understand the stupidy behind people’s posts, unless it is their own racism seeing through. If you believe Zimmerman is a profiling racicst, then why do you believe that? And please don’t tell me it’s because Martin was black. What else can you offer from any facts???????
Zimmerman had no business following Martin. Yes, he is neighborhood watch but his responsibility was to get the police involved and step back. Looking at it from another point of view, Martin had the absolute right to use deadly force against Zimmerman because Zimmerman kept following him without identifying himself.
So if you were walking in your neighborhood and someone was trailing you without identifying themselves how would you feel? I can tell you a lot of people would freak out especially when they get out their vehicle searching for them. I scared off potential attackers by acting like I had a gun just like Martin did. What reasonable person wants a stranger following them to their home. Martin tried to get away but was continually followed. From the call itself, Zimmerman lost Martin but continually searched until Martin came out asking why Zimmerman was following him.
Who is the aggressor? Legally, Zimmerman is the aggressor as he continued to trail Martin even against police advice. Martin reacted like a lot of people I know except he didn’t have a gun. A lot of Southern Missourian’s wouldn’t have hesitated to open fire on a stalker following them and legally claim stand your ground because of a reasonable fear of being harmed by a perpetrator who was searching on foot for them.
Yes, we can state with certainty that Zimmerman wasn’t a stalker but he doesn’t have a defense under Stand-your-ground. Look at the situation from a legal point of view. Stalking varies from state-to-state but is usually defined as any unwanted contact between a stalker and their victim which directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can generally be referred to as stalking, whether or not it meets a state¹s exact legal definition.
A lot of people claim Martin is the aggressor because he confronted a man who continued to follow him for no legal reason. Even Zimmerman never indicated to 911 that Martin was doing anything illegal. I will try to get away from a stalker but if I can’t and he continues to search for me, I will get aggressive.
The facts are Martin went to the store and was headed home when Zimmerman started following him. Zimmerman lost sight of him and continued searching and at one point exited his vehicle to search. Martin walked up and asked why Zimmerman was following him. Words were exchanged at which point Martin punched first. Who knows what was said. Was winning the fight and shot dead. Martin tried to get away and had no further legal obligation under Florida law to continue to run. The Stand your ground law protects Martin and not Zimmerman.
Race doesn’t have to be involved. Just the Facts I’m Legally Speaking.
Great input. However, I would love to better understand how your reached some conclusions. For instance, you say:
“Martin tried to get away but was continually followed. From the call itself, Zimmerman lost Martin but continually searched until Martin came out asking why Zimmerman was following him.”
Please sir, how do you arrive at this conclusion? Look at the 911 call. When the operator says “We don’t need you to do that” , the next response from Zimmerman is “OK”. He then goes on to say how Martin ran, lost sight of him, etc.
From this, how do know Martin tried to get away, but was continually followed? How do you know Zimmerman “continually searched”? Please, do tell, because that is very important. I don’t get that from the 911 call. Please, how do you come this conclusion?????
You can’t. Plain and simple.
And, even if your version of events is true, are you saying Zimmerman can’t respond with deadly force when assaulted and having his head banged into the cement? So, if I am suspicious of someone for any reason, then they can come and bang my head in the cement and be protected? Is that what you are saying? If it is, then I would love to understand how you come to this conclusion.
Sorry – This should have gone here.
@Legally Speaking – you have 0 credibility with any sort of non-biased opinion when you state in your first paragraph the following:
“Martin had the absolute right to use deadly force against Zimmerman because Zimmerman kept following him without identifying himself.”.
What? Martin had right to use deadly force for being followed? What country do you live in where that is legal?
And, even if your assumptions are right, are you saying Martin had every right to assault someone and start banding their head into the cement? Really, Zimmerman can’t defend himself?
The other phone call in which Martin was heard asking zimmerman why he was following him all Zimmerman had to do was identify himself instead he started to interrogate Trayvon asking what was he doing there and there was never a response from Trayvon to that question because someone started an attack in which Trayvon’s headphone was knocked from his head and no other words could be heard until someone calling 9/11 picked up the screams for help and someone saying no, no. But you will depict every black male,child and women no matter what as a criminal. But know this Karma is a biotch and it doesn’t need a black panther new or old. Someone saw all that happened and one day the truth will come out I know zimmerman will probably walk which he has always done when in trouble with the law but the law of the universe will prevail his parents can’t buy or influence that nor can his evil supporters.
@Henley-Sorry, are you saying someone needs to identify themselft to avoid getting attacked? that is worse than anything Zimmerman supposedly did.
“Worse than anything Zimmerman supposedly did”? Zimmerman pursued a person and shot him to death with a firearm.
Do you read your comments before you post them?
The extraordinary level of contorted thinking by you in this thread is stomach-turning. Your moniker is “Just the Facts,” and predictably you clear your rhetorical throat with opening lines about “common sense” before bending yourself in all kinds of shapes to ignore those facts. You deny above, for example, that George Zimmerman pursued Martin. We have Zimmerman on tape telling us he’s “chasing” Martin, saying Martin “ran,” and so on.
In order to accept the truth of George Zimmerman’s version of events, Trayvon Martin needs to become a sort of movie boogeyman, leaping out from ‘off camera’ to do various upsetting stuff. Boo! He’s attacked Zimmerman from behind! This is as plausible as when Zimmerman, responding to the restraining order from his ex-girlfriend, filed one on her too. It’s as plausible as his police application essay rationalization over the assaulting-an-officer charge. The synopsis of that essay? “The cop threatened me first, so I was justified.” There’s a pattern here. It does not require the sort of gymnastic twists of conscience you’re engaging in to recognize that pattern. You don’t need to pivot 20 times to connect these dots.
When Zimmerman was on the phone, he was in his vehicle. He was parked by the mailboxes which he told the dispatcher where he’ll be. By his own words, he was heading back to his vehicle when Martin approached him from behind. What was he doing out his truck? Evidently he was searching for Martin still.
Also, under self-defense you can kill someone. Punching someone following you is by far less than killing someone. As I said, you don’t know what was said when Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him.
As I said, people have been killed for less than following someone without identifying themselves. You’re focused on one-side of the story without looking at what Zimmerman was doing. Martin would be guilty of assault but most likely cleared as he was being followed on a dark, rainy night by someone in a vehicle who kept following him. It was a fist fight. You win some and lose some. Zimmerman was fighting back but went down.
So I can follow you through a crime-filled neighborhood on a dark night and when you think you lost me, I show up again. Say I call you a name or accuse you of being a thief. Chances are you will get pissed. All we have is Zimmerman’s word that Martin threw the first punch. Many criminals have lied when it benefits them. Zimmerman had all the power with a gun, he didn’t have to look for trouble. So we can have anyone following our kids and we can’t do anything. As I said, I get aggressive if I’m cornered.
I bet my paycheck where the shooting occurred wasn’t near the mailbox where Zimmerman was supposed to be.
I found the crime scene map at http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg. I eat my words. Zimmerman wasn’t no where near his car and was in fact searching for Martin. His vehicle was parked near the mailboxes but the shooting was a bit away. Zimmerman cut him off knowing Martin would have to walk passed him.
It is assumed paths but Martin was where he was supposed to be and on his way back to his girlfriend’s. Zimmerman had a right to defend himself but not with a lethal weapon. They were both fighting and both would be jailed for assault. It happens all the time. The witness who said Martin was on top and that he was calling 911 never did so I doubt his credibility. Conveniently he came forward afterwards while the two women who contradicted Zimmerman was never contacted and had to speak out through the media.
We have to believe that the legal system works. Zimmerman has been charged and now we wait to see if a judge finds enough evidence. I don’t believe he is guilty of murder but I do think manslaughter because there wasn’t any intent to kill Martin.
maybe involuntary manslaughter…
Aggravated Mansllaughter of a child since Trayvon was seventeen.
This would be “voluntary” manslaughter since Zimmerman fully intended to kill, or at the very least, inflict grave bodily harm knowing it could result in death.
Also, voice experts are now saying it was Martin screaming for help before the shot. So you’re saying Zimmerman can kill someone crying out for help???? Too much pointing against Zimmerman. Still, I think its manslaughter because I don’t truly believe he set out to kill Martin. The heat of the moment things happen.
Nope. Sorry my friend, but you are still reaching based on what we know. Zimmerman said he was returning to his truck, not at it. How far was he from his truck when he lost sight of Martin? I have not seen that data anywhere.What was the timeline, etc. But, it JUST DOESN’T MATTER. Zimmerman has every right under the law to be susupicious of someone. It doesn’t matter if he followed him the whole time. That is his right. And, as you said, we don’t know what happened when they met. Per Zimmerman, he was punched and was having his head banged into the sidewalk. Sorry, I don’t see how anyone can differentiate between a “small” ass kicking and one that can become lethal. Haven’t we all seen or read about fights where one of the guys dies? I have. So to say Zimmerman can’t shoot is absolutely rediculous. But, I am curious to see what new evidence must have been found to justify a 2nd Degree Murder. We must not have all the data. But until we see what that is, then I will stand by the current evidence.
So, you think that it is perfectly ok to bring a gun to a fist fight? If that were true, many a barroom brawl would be justified when the guy who is winning gets shot to death.
the new evidence? i’d put money on the prosecutor filling the charge simply so the “sweet” parents can have their justice and in an attempt to appease the mob. she never talked to any of the witnesses prior to the filing and even the wording looks to be cut and pasted from news articles. the problem with this is that if and when he’s found innocent, there will be riots.
How do you know who she talked to? She has the reputation of being a no nonsense person and does not allow public opinion to influence what cases she files. She must think she has a solid case or she would not have filed it. I’ll get a last laugh on people like you!
If George had of stopped following when he lost sight of Trayvon he would have been on the other side of the building. His father said George proceeded onward not to chase but to get an address. Watch his fathers interview.
Thank you for the transcript. It was so much better reading it
this is bull i can”t belive that even after the dispacher told him not to follwo Trayvon Martin he did as he told not to. so if he would have listened to the dispacher this would never have happend.
Correction. The dispatcher said “We don’t need you to do that.” And your statement is ignorant of any of the credibel facts in this case.
Get it right people. The dispatcher never prohibited Zimmerman from following. The dispatcher (not even a policeman) said “you don’t have to do that”. That is not a statement of prohibition. It’s amazing how many people (including rapist Mike Tyson) are misquoting this.
Right on Gary. However, I don’t see how this is relevant, yet everyone latches onto this aspect. Doesn’t Zimmerman have every legal right to follow someone he believes to be suspicious? We ridicule people who stand by and watch when crimes are committed, or who simply don’t do enough (see Penn St story), yet when someone takes the initiative he gets crucified, mainly because people can’t stop and think for themselves and are lap dogs to how the media wants to spin a story.
Penn State is an interesting comparison, George like Jerry Sandusky was a mentor of children. Chris Sorino like assistant coach Mike McQueary tried to get something done about it and like Joe Paterno the State Attorney Norm Wolfinger tried to sweep it under the carpet.
Jerry Sandusky and George Zimmerman were both great guys and community oriented until they messed up solid.
It’s apples and oranges. “Mentor of children”????? How dare you say that Sandusky was a “mentor of children”, “great guy”, Sandusky was never a “great guy” he was a perverted child abuser and a criminal from the word go. You’re one sick asshole if you think that he was mentoring children because he was a “great guy”.
I’m with the others bagworm, you’re comments are so far out in left field that it’s hard for anyone to take you seriously.
Prior to being busted people thought Sandusky was a great guy. He was praised for starting his Second Mile oganization but he tuurned out to be a child molester. George was a great guy in his own mind too then he killed a kid. That was the point of my response.
Pointing out that Trayvon was killed over 130 yards from where George first saw him by the mailboxes at 1111 Retreat View Circle seems to be irrelevent to some people here.
I apologize for making a remark that could have bee taken the wrong way in regards to Jerry Sandusky. I guess I should have said that he was perceived as a “Great Guy”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Mile
I fyou you take the sex scandal out of this article Jerry looks like a “Great Guy”. I shouldn’t have compared Mc Queary to Serino in the Trayvon Martin case.
Mc Queary had the obligation to go into the shower and defend the child he saw being raped in stead of reporting it to Paterno.
Under Texas law and both Florida law it would be my duty not choice to defend the child as I am physically and mentally able to do so. I could pull my knife and rush in on naked man raping a child and hack on him up to the point that the child was released.
If he tried to attack me after that only then would I would be able to respond to an attack.
If he grabbed the child to gain leverage naked or not it would be open season him him.
Thanks for clarifying what you meant.
You, too, are guilty of misquoting! The Dispatcher said “Okay, we don’t need you to do that.” That is the same as telling him to stop following him! Good thing that a real gun-toteing thug was not being followed or it may have been Zimmerman who is dead.
And if you listen to the tale Zimmerman does stop running after Trayvon. Martin had a near minute and a half head start to flee Zimmerman, and yet Zimmerman intercepted him on the way home? Nonsense. Martin had to have waited and then confronted Zimmerman.
So what? The fact remains that Zimmerman did not intend to wait by the mailbox because he told the Dispatcher to have the Cops to call him to learn of his location. He iwnted to pursue the kid in spite of being told to break off following him. He was looking for trouble.
“”So what? The fact remains that Zimmerman did not intend to wait by the mailbox because he told the Dispatcher to have the Cops to call him to learn of his location. He iwnted to pursue the kid in spite of being told to break off following him. He was looking for trouble.””
How do you know he wanted to pursue him? If he went back to his Truck he would of been able to drive and cut Trayvon off by the back gate. If he waited in the cut through he could walk to the front street and see the back gate and WATCH for Trayvon WITHOUT following him. He could of been waiting for the police there also because if the police turned left before the clubhouse they would end up on that street.
IF George wanted to continue to pursue Trayvon he would of either went back to his Truck and drove to cut him off or followed him for 4 more minutes on foot than attack him.
George didn’t go back to his Truck and there is no way George could of been following Trayvon for 4 minutes and shoot him just FEET from the cut through that George told the operator his Truck was parked in front of.
George did stop following Trayvon….Usually when people run/walk AWAY from someone else for 4 minutes they don’t end up back where they started like Trayvon did.
He was supposed to be going to Target but spotted the kid on the way. Fact is, since he wasn’t even on duty with the watch program anyway, he should have continued to the store and not have gotten out of the truck in the first place. After all, he did not see him breaking into someone’s house or carring burglary tools, did he? All he saw was a guy in the rain with a Hoodie!
I’ll keep this short and simple. Florida’s Stand Your Ground doesn’t protect an aggressor. Following someone who doesn’t want to be followed is aggressive. Zimmerman says Martin attacked him first, Martin’s girlfriend says Martin was pushed first. Who is the aggressor? She was listening and he was there. They’re both credible witnesses. They also both got reasons why they should lie. Regardless, a fist fight between parties trading blows is not self-defense when one assailant kills another. People have been prosecuted by every state for that behavior. You can’t turn a fight into murder otherwise the losers of a fight will be allowed to kill the winner at whim.
Next, Martin have every right to ask someone following him why they’re following him. Martin also have the right to continue on his way and not be detain or questioned by a private individual with no legal authority that didn’t observe him doing anything illegal. “What are you doing here?” States permit arrests by private citizens for the actual commission of a crime. Investigatory stops have been held to apply to police alone by the US Supreme Court.
Last, there was 1 minute and 39 seconds when Zimmerman stated OK to police that they don’t need him to follow Martin and when the call ended. 2:28 – 4:07. That’s a lot of time for him to made it back to his truck before the call ended unless he was still searching. That neighbor hood isn’t that big and I can easily walk 2 blocks in 1 1/2 minutes. What was he doing crawling? There is speculation that Martin looped back but questioning someone why they are following them isn’t aggressive but assertive. You can believe someone who has everything to lose by not lying. I’ll believe that a armed adult trailing a teenager who hasn’t broken any laws and outweighs by 100 lbs when he doesn’t have to is the aggressor. Zimmerman already had his mind made up that Martin was a criminal. “These a**holes. They always get away.” He wasn’t going to discuss the weather and witness statements states that there were a lot of words flying.
As I stated previously, which you conveniently ignored, if Martin had a gun he had every right to kill Zimmerman under Stand Your Ground as Zimmerman’s conduct following him is a reasonable fear of harm or loss of life and he tried to get away. The fact he threw a fist instead of a bullet doesn’t allow Zimmerman to turn the tables and deliver the lethal round claiming self defense for a confrontation he created. Zimmerman was aggressive and been fired from his security job for being aggressive. He’s aggressive.
So, first, no, Martin’s girlfriend was not there. She said she was on the phone, and she indicated she heard a the fight starting. Still doesn’t disprove that Martin punched first. Second, following someone is NOT a crime, or agressive enough to warrant Standing Your Ground unless Martin was confronted, and then held agaist his will, as you mention. Then he can defend. From what we know, that simply did NOT happen, or can’t be proven that it happened. In this case, finally, rather than turning a blind eye like most people do, Zimmerman chose to look into what he thought was suspicious behavor, and this causes him to be an agressor? I don’t get that.
I’m walking home in the rain and some unknown dude starts eye raping me, I decide to get out of there and he follows me…….
Well said!
So Bagworm, you are new. In this forum most people stick to the facts. I don’t know what “eye raping” is supposed to mean, and it has not been proven that Zimmerman follows Martin for any more than the 20 or so seconds after he starts to run. Nor can anyone say who started the physical confrontation. Let’s just stick to what we know.
Bagworm”? Are you looking in a mirror?! Please! Follow your own advice and stick to what you know, which is nothing!
@Just The Facts Please.
Picture yourself walking home from going to the store, it’s raining and you stop under the awning where the mailboxes are where you are staying. A unknown man stops his vehicle to check you out.
That would qualify as a “Eye Raping”, it’s a slang term.
The definition of what makes a suspicious looking person can vary greatly from person to person depending on your demographic, the region you live in or socioeconomic group.
A fact is that George declared a child walking home from the store to be suspicious and then took part in an act of aggression which was pursuing the child.
I’m starting to get you idea though, If I was driving through the complex and saw Zimmerman stand there I could say to the police “This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. ” and then get out of my vehicle and chase him and if he got tired of being followed and stood his ground I could shoot him.
It’s all so clear now.
I’d rather let the police handle it and avoid all the controversy plus I have a concealed weapon permit and would like to keep it.
George was obviously unable to defend himself without a gun and I honestly do not think he would have gotten out of his vehicle and pursued Trayvon without a gun.
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something.”
George was right, Trayvon was up to “something”. He was walking home from the store and talking to his girlfriend and a irresponsible gun owner/self appointed neighborhood watch captain chased him whereupon there was a conflict and Trayvon was killed on a sidewalk that led to where he was staying.
I’m glad that this is being dealt with in a court of law, Zimmerman was not a policeman pursuing a criminal. I do predict that he will become the poster boy for overzealous neighborhood watchmen for some time to come and while were at it maybe we can establish that it’s not cool for common citizens to declare other people suspicious and start chasing them in public.
Anyone that thinks that Zimmerman was right in following Trayvon should go find some suspicious seventeen year old girls and follow them around and see what it does for their standing in the community.
@bagworm – I don’t have to picture myself in your scenario. I have lived it on numerous occasions, but in my case it was not just some guy sitting in truck, but people yelling at me clearly trying to start something. I always did the prudent thing and got the hell out of there. But in any case, my point is we don’t have all of the information to come to any conclusions. If you listen to the 911 taps, Martin ran BEFORE Zimmerman got out of his truck to follow him, which per the 911 tape only occurred for 10-20s. Everyone keeps saying Zimmerman was chasing Martin and that’s how all of it started, but listen to the 911 call. That is not what happened. Now, what happened after the call? I can’t say. Did Zimmerman really start walking back to his truck? Did he try to find Martin? Did Martin come back and confront Zimmerman? No one knows. I am curious to see what other evidence may be out there we don’t have. But until then, the guy on the 911 call doesn’t sound like someone trying to hunt someone down to cause trouble. Also, he had called 911 48 some time over the previous years. I have not see where any of those resulted in physical confrontation.
Your last statement is why good Sumerians are killed. You have to assume most criminals are armed. He ran into the right person instead of a hard-core criminal. Gun laws are for law-abiding citizens and Zimmerman better thank his stars that he didn’t encounter an armed criminal that ran around those buildings and killed Zimmerman as he went back there to investigate. Leave law enforcement to those trained in it. Armchair police need not apply.
Right on! Now, THAT person is thinking!
Nice chatting with you Just the Facts Please. Enjoyed your debate without race getting involved. I was actually called a racist because I said that Martin wasn’t follow because he was black but his behavior. Wow. Spent enough time here and have to get to my schoolwork. We’ll soon see what the state has and I hope George is convicted of no more than manslaughter.
zimmerman is such an idiot for not listening to the dispatcher! he did as he was told not to and now a boy is dead because he did not listen to the dispacther and now he is in jail and may get charged with 2 degree mureder because of it! stupid stupid stupid stuipd
But he does listen to the dispatcher. When you listen to the 911 call, you can hear when Zimmerman is running. The air hits the microphone and then the 911 operator asks if Zimmerman is following Martin. “We don’t need you to do that” and then about 10 seconds later we hear the air stop. Obviously Zimmerman stopped running after the person that was running away when the operator told him to.
Why did Trayvon start talking with the guy who was running after him, but stopped? Especially when Trayvon would have been a few houses away from where he was staying? How is it that Trayvon did not make it home? He started running before Zimmerman. Zimmerman has to get out of his car, and then he only runs for about 30 seconds after that then stops, talks to the operator for another minute or so and then goes and tracks down Trayvon after losing him and some how intercepts him before Trayvon made it home? That doesn’t make any sense! That time line doesn’t track. I can’t understand why, when being followed by someone for an unknown reason you would not try to get home as quickly as possible. Seems like Trayvon would have had to stay outside in order for George to catch up with him. Why?
Guru Reoul, please stick to facts. You are correct in your assessment, but then you say “and then goes and tracks down Trayvon after losing him and some how intercepts him before Trayvon made it home”. How do you know this? From Zimmerman, he was returning to his truck when Martin confronted him. I even read something about Zimmerman walking to the nearest street to determine the street name, and that’s when Martin confronted him (have not read that, just someone’s elses comment, so I can’t put any faith into it). But regardless, I have not seen anything that supports your statement.
Just the Facts, you misunderstood me. I was not saying that that is what happened, but that it couldn’t have happened that way (the way a number of people are portraying it – as though he hunted Martin down). The whole point was to say that Martin should have already been home, i.e. that Martin would have had to wait for Zimmerman for them to get into a confrontation. It wasn’t that far from where he was staying. It’s not like Martin was just fleeing and was scared and ran into Zimmerman who was pursuing him and some how cornered him. I don’t think that the 911 call supports that view at all. Zimmerman had already stopped after the 911 call said he didn’t need to pursue the suspect and continued speaking with the operator for another minute or so without any signs of pursuit. That’s more than enough time for Martin hide, get to safety, ditch his tail, something. Zimmerman’s account makes much more sense, i.e. that he followed him a bit until told it wasn’t necessary, (I think that he probably) looked around for Martin a bit more, couldn’t find him, headed back to his truck, and then Martin calls out to him asking why Zimmerman was following him. Zimmerman replies with “what are you doing here?”, gets attacked, and needs to defend himself to keep his skull from being cracked open. All except for why Martin calls out to him, Zimmerman’s story makes perfect sense and is in accord with what I can get from the 911 call. And by the girlfriend’s account Martin did call out to Zimmerman first, so there’s no inconsistency in Zimmerman’s report. Whatever the girl heard before Martin’s phone cut out could really have been anything. It could have been the sound of the phone falling as Martin went to confront Zimmerman. She is of the opinion it was Martin getting pushed, but that’s not good enough proof, especially in light of the 911 call Zimmerman made. Fact is she doesn’t really know what happened after she hears Zimmerman’s reply, and neither do we.
What is out there now as far as evidence goes confirms Zimmerman’s story, in my opinion. Maybe the prosecutor’s have some additional evidence that we’re not privy to, but right now I’m siding with Zimmerman and I understand why the police on the night of the killing did as well.
I don’t understand why Martin felt the need to confront Zimmerman. It really looks like he should have been able to get away and avoid any confrontation with him. That’s the one thing that isn’t making sense to me.
Ok, here’s a fact for you…Zimmerman said that he had a broken nose but today anPlastic Surgeon said that his nose is perfictly straight and shows no sign of being broken. Now, what makes you believe anything that the Zimm has to say?
One other salient point is that the so-called “witness” that said the guy on the bottom in red was doing the yelling and that “he told him to stop and that he was going to call 911.” What?! Thge guy on the bottom needs to be told to stop? Think, people, think!
I’m going to wait until the medical evidence is brought out by the people who actually treated Zimmerman at the scene instead of listening to some one who has seen a picture of someone they’ve never examined in person. Either way, broken nose or just bloody nose, that’s insignificant – if it was only a broken nose then I don’t think Zimmerman would have a case. But it wasn’t just a broken nose that is alleged. Its also head injuries – which definitely escalates the seriousness of the situation.
As far as the eyewitnesses go, their reports are all over the place. But as far as I can tell you are right, it doesn’t make sense for the witness to tell the guy screaming help to stop. That’s why I didn’t make that ridiculous assumption and thought that after hearing ‘help’ from the guy on the bottom the witness told the ‘he’ who was on top to stop. Can’t forget that there was another person there to whom it would actually make sense to say stop.
But like I said these witness are all over the place. Some say Zimmerman was on top, some say Martin. Some have said they were pressured, others the cops claim have changed their testimony. There’s only so much we can assume from ‘eyewitnesses’ who really did not see anything without reading their written affidavits from the evening in question. The large amount of media coverage and the malleability of human memory calls anything that they are reporting now into question. Right now, there’s not enough from the witnesses to actually piece together what happened.
Oh please! Those head injuries could just be scratches inflicted by the kid and are defense wounds! Ask yourself how a guy with a gun in his pocket and is onthe the bottom getting his head banged against hard concrete can get a gun out of his pocket? Try that with a toy gun and see how that works out for you! Also, how does a guy on the bottom can be told to stop because the cops are going to be called?
Again, people, think!
Some of us like to think about facts and not supposition. Fact is, you don’t know the extent of his injuries, you’re minimizing them to suit your pre-determined version of the story and you have no evidence to support that. We do know that he did have head injuries and was treated by the paramedics. We do know that the officer on the scene noted blood on the back of his head and grass on his back. We also know that there was no sign of injury on Martin other than the gunshot wound. So tell me, what did Zimmerman do that warranted getting hit by Martin? It could be that Zimmerman merely pushed him and left no mark, or it could be that Martin started the physical altercation. Nobody knows. As I said elsewhere, the 911 call doesn’t match up with someone out to confront anyone, but to watch them so that he could tell the police where the suspicious character went. George’s behavior on the phone is totally consistent with that and not with someone out to confront the suspect. The timing of the call and the shooting doesn’t match up with Zimmerman some how being able to catch up to Trayvon unless Trayvon stuck around to confront him. And Trayvon did confront Zimmerman first. He is the one who initiated conversation with ZImmerman.
Your version of the story just relies on too many suppositions. I can’t point to multiple parts of this 911 call to support my position that George never intended to confront Trayvon. And George’s story is completely consistent with that interpretation. There could be other evidence to contradict his story, but we do not have access to it.
As you say repeatedly – think about it. Piece together the evidence and then come to a decision, not the other way around.
Sorry, I meant “I CAN point to multiple parts of the 911 call to support” my position.
Here is my take. I live in Florida and have a concealed permit. I have a teenager that is 17 years old.
A teenager is on the phone with his girlie. He has to run from a short “white” guy. That is embarrassing. Maybe his shorty is making fun of him for being a punk. He decides to save face and deliver an ass whupping. He gets a 9mm slug in exchange.
I’m sure if they get the girlfriend on the witness stand and grill her she will crack and tell the truth about what she heard.
Billy Bob – I too was thinking something along those lines, but I don’t really see any reason to doubt that his ‘girlfriend’ was telling him to run. My complete supposition based on nothing but a feeling: Trayvon was not as scared as his girlfriend said. He saw Zimmerman, and was more annoyed then anything. He starts to approach him in SUV to confront him about why he’s following him, and sees George on the phone. That worries his girlfriend and she tells him to run – to get out of there. Trayvon does, but then hears George start to pursue him on foot and decides that running didn’t work and he holds back and waits until Zimmerman catches up with him. Zimmerman slows down after the 911 operator says he does need to follow, but still is looking around. George gets off the phone with the operator and continues to check out the immediate area a little more before heading back to the vehicle. Probably went and checked in between the two rows of houses, but didn’t see Trayvon who was probably hiding somewhere. Trayvon sees George from his position and as George is heading back to his SUV, Trayvon comes out and asks Why are you following me? George asks why are you here. Trayvon: Do you have a problem. George: No. Trayvon, well now you do. Attack Zimmerman, struggle, George screams for help long enough for us to still hear it on the 911 call, grabs his gun and fires.
But that’s all just supposition. We don’t have enough information to reliably piece together what happened with Trayvon after he runs. I do agree, the girl’s testimony is going to be interesting and key. I have a feeling that what the lawyers are reporting about her conversation with Trayvon is not complete and more information about what they were speaking and what Trayvon said would really help clarify what was happening.
From the Florida Concealed carry site.
Q. What if I see a crime being committed?
A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would no longer be “preventing” a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of manslaughter.
I might add, however, that there is no proof that a “criminal” was running away.
After the shooting, media reports had indicated that Zimmerman would most likely use the “Stand Your Ground” provision in Florida’s self-defense law. According to Durell Peaden, one of the sponsors of the Florida law, the law does not say that a person has a right to confront another. “When [Zimmerman] said ‘I’m following him’, he lost his defense.”[191] However, the same article goes on to state, “Peaden and Baxley said they didn’t know all the facts of the case, so their interpretations of what happened could change if new information arises during the investigation.
bagworm – that’s some interesting information and might apply to this case if we can demonstrate that Zimmerman intended to confront Martin. But as I said before, I don’t see any evidence indicating that that’s what he intended to do.
Zimmerman’s use of the gun was in self-defense per his claim, so that bit of info from the Concealed Carry website is non-applicable. George never saw a crime being committed. If it’s self-defense, it’s a whole different ballgame than using a gun to stop a crime.
And when we have a person who calls in “suspicious” behavior to the 911; gives his approximate location; stays in his car until the suspect starts running; stops running when the 911 operator says that its not needed; gives the operator his address and phone number and asks to be called when the cops get there; I cannot see how that behavior is in anyway a precursor to trying to confront the suspect by himself. Everything about this call screams to me “Surveillance”, trying to see where the suspect went. Couple that with the girl’s claim that Martin initiated the conversation (i.e. George did not speak until spoken to), and it seems pretty obvious what Zimmerman’s intentions were – as I said above, to watch and not to confront. Hence, ruling out the Stand your Ground laws because Zimmerman initiated the confrontation is not justified from what we can tell – at least from as far as I can tell.
But still there remains the missing minute or two where the two of them start fighting – and it’s who swung first that really matters.
Great post Guru!
“I might add, however, that there is no proof that a “criminal” was running away.”
That was the point of me posting that from the concealed carry site. There was no crime being committed, it was just a kid walking home from the store.
I really wish that someone would help me with a standardized “Official” version of what it is to look suspicious and what is not suspicious.
Another person could have seen Trayvon and thought that he had been checking the mail and waiting for the rain to let up a little.
George should have let the police handle the situation, they would have came and asked Trayvon what he was up to and found out that he was just a kid walking home from the store and talking to his girlfriend, if they found him at the back of the complex they would have found out that he was a kid walking home from the store trying to get away from some weirdo that was eyeballing him up by the mailboxes.
@bagworm- again, what defines suspicious doens’t matter. And per the 911 call, Martin wasn’t standing under a yawning waiting for the rain to stop. Per the 911 call, that is one aspect Zimmerman finds suspicious, that Martin was just walking about looking at houses. And, how do you know Zimmerman wasn’t just waiting for the police to handle it? Per his story, that is exactly what he was doing when Martin confronted him and assaulted him.
What Idiot would just stand still in the rain waiting for it to stop? If you have a hoodie, you may want to put it up in the rain and quicken your pace to get out of it. If the kid was walking around looking at houses in the rain, perhaps he was trying to find where he was supposed to be. After all, he was just a visitor there and may not have been familiar enough to know which cookie-cutter home he was supposed to be in.
But you miss the point that from what we can tell having the police question Trayvon was George’s plan. He’s out on an errand. He’s in his gated community where there’s been a string of burglaries and the community has called 911 402 times in the past 365 days. He sees someone he doesn’t recognize, standing outside in the rain. He apparently thought the guy looked like he was on drugs, which means he saw some sort of odd behavior. The guy is “suspicious”, and he calls the cops, and begins to describe him. Then he is noticed while sitting in his truck on the phone. The guy approaches him and has his hand hidden in his waist band. After they guy looks at him a little, he starts running away.
George starts to follow, but stays on the phone with the operator. He runs about 20-30 seconds and stops running at the request of the operator. He continues talking with the operator for another minute or so to coordinate meeting up with the police.
But after all of this, we still need to question whether Trayvon looked suspicious and whether or not George was trying to work with the police? We’re supposed to imagine that after this four minute coordination with the 911 operator that George gets off the phone and then goes immediately to hunt down and confront Trayvon because he wanted to make the confrontation all by himself, without the police?
What would make sense is that George looked around for a while to see if he could tell where Trayvon went, since he tells the operator that he lost the guy. Wanting to have the most up-to-date information to give the police is reasonable in this situation, and does not indicate any intention to confront the suspect. And from George’s version of events and the phone call that the girl has reported, Trayvon is the one to initiate the contact. He calls out to him, and a guy at a distance responds.
The question is why a football player who had at least a minute and a half of running, about a minute when nobody was following him, loses his pursuer and still manages to get ‘trapped’ between those two rows of houses less than 70 yards away from the house he was staying at. Even if he was concerned about leading the guy to his house, why did he stick around so close to it? Why not get away as far as possible, maybe call the cops, maybe wait it out, maybe run around in a large circle. Ditch his tail and get home. But he decides to stick around close to his house, talk to his girlfriend on the phone, call out to the guy he’s supposedly afraid of alerting to his location and who was at least a minute behind Martin, and I’m supposed to believe that George is the aggressor in this situation? It doesn’t add up, it doesn’t make sense.
Now we don’t actually know what happened to start the altercation, and we can only guess. But as I’ve said again and again: all that we know at this moment supports George’ story – it’s consistent with a man who sees someone suspicious, follows him and losses him, and gets attacked by him later. Trayvon’s behavior is consistent with a teenage male making a poor choice about when to fight and when not to – and it’s not like that’s surprising behavior for a adolescent male of any race. Again, I leave it possible that the roles could have switched at the moment the confrontation began, but that doesn’t seem to be consistent and we’d need more information to assert that George is the aggressor. I hope the prosecutor has some, or else she’ll look foolish.
If I’m walking along the sidewalk in the rain and some guy in a vehicle spots me and then gets out of his car and comes my way, I would certainly look askance at him too! Please! Zimmerman should have never disembarked from from his ride and simply called the police and went on his way to the Target where he was headed. After all, he never did see the kid attemp to break and enter, did he? No, all he saw, in the dark, was a kid who “had something wrong with him and looked suspicious.” Yep, a real Super Human with cat vision!
@bagworm – the situation is way more complex than you are making it sound. Trayvon’s behavior encompasses a lot more than “looking askance” at George. And George behavior was a lot more than getting out of his car. Get a good idea of what we know and then try to convince me. Information outside of context is meaningless.
The big keys are that Trayvon was about 70 feet away from his house. Why didnt he go to his house? He obviously knew where he was. He could outrun Zimmerman. Now, Zimmerman ‘may’ have been heading back to his car. Or not. It makes no difference. The Prosecutor never asked Zimmermans side of the story. She took the word of a person on the phone as to ‘whoever’ initiated the confrontation. She wasnt there. Its hearsay. Inadmissibile! Prosecutor also said Trayvons Mom identified his voice crying for help. Um. Inadmissible again, no independant confirmation. She couldnt say who was doing what! Unless she can come up with an EYEWITNESS that says who jumped on who, they will have to explain where did Trayvon go from when Zimmerman lost him at 2.34 and still had not seen him for a minute and a half.
Ultimately though, under Florida law, ‘words alone’ do not meet the requirements for feeling threatened. There has to be physical contact. If there is a witness willing to say Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, beating him up (regardless of age difference) then Martin is going to be considered the agressor. Undoubetdly, the Prosecutor is going to attempt to say that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation in order to shoot Martin, or at minimum that it was Martin that was scared for his life. BUT — If either of those were true, the Prosecutor could easily pull a Grand Jury and go for Murder 1. But she didnt. Why? Because she knew she was barely looking at Manslaughter. By over charging, she can offer up voluntary manslaughter and 15 years and Zimmerman may take it. If she charged manslaughter to begin with, what can she bargain on? Prosecutor was just placating the Martins and possibly every low intelligence person that had all but hung Zimmerman from a tree.. It will be interesting to see if the judge lets it go to trial before throwing it all out…
Yeah, I guess it is suspicious for a guy to wear a Hoodie in the rain! Please! Where are the thinkers on this thread?!
You don’t seem to be the one doing a whole lot of thinking here. No one said wearing a hoodie in itself is suspicious. Zimmerman thought that an unrecognized person wandering around at night and looking about in a gated community which had needed to call 911 402 times in the past 365 days and was suffering from a string of burglaries ; that’s what he thought was suspicious. It’s not as though there wasn’t context for Zimmerman to be concerned about strangers wandering about his community at night.
Most burgalaries are not committed in foul weather! Besides, it is not good policy to place property over a human life! No deadly force should be brought to a Neighborhood Watch Progrm, Pal! Zimmerman is just a wanna be Cop who was looking for trouble and he created it out of a guy who was trying to make it home in the rain .
When MOST burglaries happen has no bearing on whether Martin’s behavior was suspicious and with string of burglaries there’d be reason to look at anyone out of the ordinary regardless of what happens most often.
And nobody is saying that deadly force should go with a Neighborhood Watch or that property is worth more than life. The claim is that deadly force is permissible when your own life is in danger. And Florida, apparently, is extra lenient when it comes to protecting self-defense. Whether the law should be changed has no bearing on whether Zimmerman was acting within the law at the time of the incident. We can’t change the law and then judge Zimmerman’s actions by the new law.
If, as I believe the evidence shows, Zimmerman never initiated contact with Martin and Martin hit ZImmerman first and began bashing his head into the pavement, then Zimmerman was within the law to fire the gun.
No Neighborhood Watch Program in America allows the volunteers to carry guns! Zimmerman was wrong to have it even if he had a permit to carry it! His job was to just WATCH and call 911 if a crime was in progress. Just walking around with a Hoodie in the rain is not a crime. If he had burglary tools and was prying open a window or door, then the cops should have been called and not the burglar confonted.
Shooting a guy because he is losing a fight is not justified. Those little scratches on Zimmerman’s head is not consistent with his story. Furthermore, as i previously stated, Zimmerman also said that his nose was broken. That is not supported by the facts. He is a big liar and a bully.
Thinking is not the same as making things up – that’s called imagination. You have no idea as to the extent of the head injury and seem to think that you can judge a head injuries severity by the external damage. The life-threatening aspects of a head injury are internal. And whether or not George’s injuries actually were that severe, the potential for life-threatening damage is clearly there.
Maybe your point about the neighborhood watch’s policy on carrying weapons would matter if George was out patrolling, but that’s not what we know. George reports coming back from shopping. Just because someone is in a neighborhood watch (and i’m not certain it was really anything organized in the first place) does not mean they can never own or carry a gun. Neighborhood watches don’t trump the constitution.
Walking around isn’t a crime, you’re right. But it can be suspicious. Zimmerman did call the cops, have you forgotten that this blog post is about that very call. And nothing we know indicates that Zimmerman intended to do anything but watch. The 911 call supports this – you can hear George start and stop running. Obviously he was interested in keeping track of the suspect to tell the police, but there’s no indication he intended anything then to see where the person went.
You’re “fact” about Zimmerman’s nose is the word of a doctor who has never examined Zimmerman outside of a picture. And again, whether it was broken or bloodied is unimportant to whether the head injury could have killed him. Still, we don’t know whether it was broken or not. You are only assuming things.
Whenever you say think, i’m going take it to mean: “believe in my hatred of a man i’ve never met”, because that is how you use it.
Explain to me how Martin had a good minute and a half after George stopped running to get away, but is also the one who starts talking first.
Well now, since you know who did the talking first, tell me exactly what they said and who threw the first punch? Fact is, you don’t know that! All that is known is what the lying Zimmerman said. He said he had a broken nose and an expert said that it was perfectly straight and couldn’t be broken. He said his head was beaten to the ground repeatedly but has scratches consistent with defensive wounds. I suspect that the medical reports will refute Zimms accounts very soundly. That would put him in a good position to be properly convicted.
I never claimed to know who threw the first punch. That’s really what the entire case of self-defense hinges on. All we have is Zimmerman’s account of that – no one else saw how it got started.
Listen to yourself sometimes – defensive wounds on the back of his head? What sort of sense does that make? Trayvon get’s attacked by George and yet the wounds he inflicts from defending himself are on the back of George’s head. You mean to say that while defending himself he some how and for some reason reached around George’s head and scratched him and did so specifically on the right side of George’s head? Why are there no reports of other scratches on George, you know like maybe on the front of his face, his neck, his arms? Maybe there are, but we have no evidence to support that – we know the back of George’s head was bloody, his nose was bloody and that there was grass on his back. That’s all consistent with Zimmerman’s story. You have to make things up to assume that George’s injuries were caused by someone else trying to defend themselves.
You keep harping on this broken/not-broken nose thing. But you have yet to convince anyone that whether it was broken or not actually matters in the case. It still doesn’t tell us who threw the first punch and has no bearing on whether the head injury was life threatening or not (like I said your story of defensive wounds doesn’t make sense).
Did you see the blowup of Zimm’s head? These could have easily been scratches rather than blows. Look at the position of the cuts. They are consistent with fingernails and the angle when someone is on the bottom and trying to fend off an attack. however, it is not consistent with a head being slammed to the ground. It is on his bald spot instead of further down where that would make sense.
Pingback: BREAKING NEWS: George Zimmerman To Be Charged - Page 7 - Glock Forum
Thank you for the trackback.
I just posted the transcript of the State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman: Affidavit of probable cause that you might be interested in reading.
ow is it that he said he was the one yelling for help when he wasn’t! He lied about that what else has he lied to the police about and lied to his lawyer about also! This is weired!!!!
That is the thing about ‘listening to a recording of someone yelling Help, through a wall, outside, over a crappy telephone’ It can sound like ANYONE, even my dead Grandmother. And, of course, the Martins are going to just be bastions of non-partisan and unbiased definition of who it sounds like right?
Actually, technology can detect who a voice belogs to because there are unique pattens that each u of us have, like fingerprints, voice prints can find the truth. One can be a darn good voice immitator and can sound like someone very well to the ear but the voice print can tell the real from the fake. My question is why a man with a gun needs to call for help? Why not just whack him on the head instead of shooting him?
If you are surprised you can get overpowered real quick, gun or not. He was probably yelling so that he would of have to shoot.
Or, he could have been yelling in order to cover what he was about to do! See how easy it is to speculate, depending on your bias? Fact is, the yelling went on for some time. Listen to it again. Someone was being restrained in some fashion or trying to run away, i suspect. If the guy with the gun was running, i would think that just brandishing it would stop anyone from advance, unless they felt suicidal.
Guru Reoul, very good posts, and right on the money. I would stop responding to walker and mayo mc neil, as they clearly are not interested in the facts of the call, just jumping to imagined conclusions.
Good call. I had it give it a shot though.
As a retired Private Investigator, I can assure you that I am interested in the FACTS and that is what I am trying to ascertain. Speculation is a natural process in trying to get at the truth. Watch any good TV or movies lately? They do that on a daily basis!
Is that where you learned to be a PI? From TV and movies? Telling us that you are using ‘FACTS’ does not negate the things you’ve made up and does not really hold weight when immediately afterwards you try to justify using speculation in place of facts. I think what you are implying is that you are making a hypothesis, except a hypothesis needs to hold up against scrutiny and examination and it should not ever be construed to be what actually happened until facts are in. Your unhidden disdain for Zimmerman belie you. You are just making things up to support what you already believe happened – that’s not making a hypothesis or trying to get at the truth.
All we have for facts is that Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid. All else is speculation and conjecture. The prosecutor has the facts and that will come out in court. And yes, i have NOTHING BUT DISDAIN FOR THAT SOB! He had no right to carry a gun on his watch, let alone shoot an unarmed kid! How would you like to be shot to death just because you bested someone in a fist fight? That’s like swating a fly with a sledge hammer!
@mayo, supposedly Zimmerman was coming in from shopping. He was not on “duty”. If you had the number of breakins in your place I’m sure you would be on guard against intruders at all time not just when its your turn to be watchman.
I have made many a survelliance but called the cops when it was necerssary and did not confront the subject. The idea is to watch and not engage, as the Dispacher tried to remind Zimmerman of his role. In any event, Zimmerman was wrong to be on patrol with a gun! He was even more out of line to use it on an unarmed kid!
Did you say “retired” PI or did you mean “retarded” PI, I only say that because after seeing other people knock your points down with verifiable facts you continue to argue our points with supposition. If that’s how you conducted your PI work then maybe it’s best that you’re “retired” or more likely retarded.
Even if I were retarded, i’m still way ahead of you! After all, YOU are the one with the self-appointed name of “MadMax”!
He had a very specific right to carry a gun. It’s in the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. He also had a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon. Furthermore, he was on a private errand and not on Watch duty; the national group has already stated that Zimmerman did not violate any bylaws by carrying his gun as he was not on duty at the time.
Finally, I have a seriously difficult time believing that you are or were ever a PI. That you suggest the only fact in the case is that Zimmerman shot Martin is laughable at best. It would also get the case thrown out of court; there’s not even enough evidence for manslaughter if that’s the only fact.
There are many facts that have been released, and likely many that haven’t. And what we have seen so far supports a story of Zimmerman making a call to police to report suspicious behavior by Trayvon Martin, followd by Martin checking Zimmerman out, then running. Zimmerman gets out and follows for about 20-30 seconds, loses him, is asked by the dispatcher to stop and return to his vehicle and does so, and agrees to meet police at the mailboxes, and then asks the dispatch to have police call him and says he’ll tell them where he is.
Usain Bolt runs a 100m in under 10 seconds, about 23 mph. If Zimmerman runs half as fast, he can run that distance in under 20. Let’s say he’s average speed for an adult male – about 15 mph. Depending on the report you read, Martin is anywhere from 35-130 yards from Zimmerman’s parked truck. Let’s go with 80. The 15 mph number we’ve set for Zimmerman places him 150 yards from his truck. Even the 11-12 mph number is a good hundred yards. After a hard sprint, of course, he won’t start walking back immediately. He’ll maybe bend over, one hand on his knees. Maybe he makes up some ground heading back, but he’s in the range that Martin was found. A slow, out of breath walk takes a lot longer than a sprint. Especially if you’re on the phone and distracted.
A lot more information has come in since I wrote anything. and yes, I am a retired PI and made a fortune at it too! I am single-handedly responsible for the Great Colorado Payback, in which people can claim money from the State Treasury that they did not know they had. It caught on around the country too. I used to do that before some News guy got jealous and put me out of business, telling them the secret because he was jealous that I was taking 50% for finding the money for people.
Whatever Zimm was doing, he was not justified in shooting anyone just because he was getting his but kiicked in a fist fight. I’ve seen guys take a lot more punishment in Ultimate Fighting and looked a lot worse than he did. He is just a miserable excuse for a person and should pay for his crime in some measure.
How would Zman know what location to give the rolling patrol when they called? remember that was asked of Zman. He said it was a cut through and didn’t see a house number.
Waiting for the phone call, Zman looks for that address to give the rolling patrol.
i am interested in the facts thank you very much i am just statting my opinon thank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your opinion is not based on facts. If it is, then please share with the rest of us and we can have a meaningful discussion.
well let me put it this way!!!! I beleave that Zimmerman should have listened to the dispatcer and i beleave he also should have also let the police take care of Trayvon!
So, let me try this one more time with you. You say two things:
1. You believe Zimmerman should have listened to the dispatcher
2. You believe Zimmerman should have let the police take care of it.
So, based on what we know, what facts can you offer that says Zimmerman did not do both of the things you say he should have?
For #1, from the 911 tape, when the dispatcher says “Ok, we don’t need you to do that”. The response from Zimmerman is “Ok”. You can then tell he has stopped running or moving quickly based on the drop in sound. He also indicates he has lost Martin. Based on this, to me, the logical conclusion is that he did listen to the dispatcher. Do I know that for sure? No, but I just provided three reasons that suggest he did.
For #2, again, from the 911 tape he discusses meeting up with the police, making sure they have his number to call him when they arrive. If I go further and take his input that he was walking back to his truck, then I have again pointed to 3 things that suggest he did.
If you can provide three facts for each item that suggests he did not do what you believe he should have, then fire away.
Pingback: Trayvon Martin - Page 24
If you can show me ONE witness. ANY witness. That was there, that can show and prove (not suppose, but prove) that Zimmerman even touched Martin, prior to shooting him after Martin started to kick his *ss, then MAYBE Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter. But if no witness (other than a minor saying she ‘heard a push’ on the phone) can prove that Zimmerman even touched Martin, then he will be let go. Thats all there is to it.
I think it will all hinge on whether Zimmerman had blood from the gunshot on him which would most likely happen if Trayvon was on top of him, if not, then the shot most likely would have happened when Trayvon was standing up. I’m not saying there would have been splatter but there would have been trace amounts.
Since the Sanford PD didn’t confiscate the clothes Zimmerman was wearing, I’m doubting that there is any blood evidence left if there was any to begin with.
The Prosecutor overcharged and with no eye witnessess during that missing minute and a half, Zimmerman will get off, unless the jury is picked from Pinellas County.
If shot at close range, there would be blood splatter. Was there any blood on Zimm’s clothing in that police clip where he was brought in? I didn’t see any. You can explain no blood on his head from the medical attention but he didn’t drop his clothes off at the laundry on the way to the station.
Phoebe53. I thought I read somewhere that Zimmerman’s clothes were taken. It was one of those myths, like he didn’t get taken to the station, but we learned that he really did.
@Just the Facts I hadn’t seen or heard that, my mistake. I still think it all hinges on the gunshot, forensics of what distance they were apart.
@Phoebe53. I agree with the foresnics. Also, I really can’t recall the clothes part. It was more of a question.
The witness who called 911 said that he saw the “guy in red on the bottom and that I told him to stop and that I was going to call 911.” Now, why would you tell the guy on the bottom, who was getting his head bashed in, to stop? Maybe he was chokeing the kid with one hand and pointing a gun to his head with the other and that is why he was yelling for help? Hmmmmmm?
I heard that the clothes and the gun were both confiscated as well -from a number of places, but not from anywhere I’d deem reliable. I’m not sure how damning the lack of blood on Zimmerman’s clothes would be. I think Trayvon’s clothes (especially a hoodie which is usually rather thick cotton) would have initially absorbed most if not all of the blood, and if Trayvon rolled off Zimmerman quickly after he was shot, then there might not be any trace blood on George.
The forensics which will be interesting is the gunshot wound itself. They should be able to calculate the angle of the gunshot and the distance from which it was shot based off of the bullet’s entry wound and penetration. It would be rather simple math. Maybe this info is what the prosecutor is holding – but then again, if that’s the case I would have suspected an arrest earlier.
Ever eat spaghetti without getting any sauce on you?
As for the delayed arrest, you know that one cop wanted to charge and arrest him on the spot but was outranked. I suspect that his Dad, being a retired Judge, had some clout in preventing that. Probably was a golfing buddy with the Chief? Just get a ticket and go to court and see whose side the judge is on when it comes down to just the cop’s word or yours!
Mayo, I already pointed out the vagueness in the statement from that witness. Telling ‘him’ to stop does not necessarily refer to the guy on the bottom wearing red. In fact, it goes against all reason to assume that the ‘him’ the witness referred to is guy on the ground screaming for help.
And your making nonsense up again – if Trayvon was being choked how was he screaming? Being choked means your air supply is cut off – it certainly wouldn’t be as loud as we hear on the woman’s 911 call. Yeah, your scenario doesn’t make any sense.
Couldn’t help myself Just the Facts.
Depends on whether or not the voicebox was being choked. In a scuffle, grips are held and lost, allowing for screams. Have you never had a fight? I’m a Martial Artist and I can assure you that my scenario is not unreasonable! What is unreasonable is that one could be shot at close range and there not be any blood on the shooter!
If he was able to scream, he wasn’t being choked. Choked = something blocking your airflow. Frankly, your voicebox would still vibrate, but that wouldn’t matter since you can’t put air behind it to project it out. If it was a struggle where a grip was lost and regained, then your supposition that Zimmerman had a gun to Martin’s head doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t matter, since you have no evidence one way or the other to claim that this was how the fight went down. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. Who knows? Certainly not you, and certainly not me. What we do know supports Zimmerman being knocked on his back and having the back of his head injured. See how I don’t have to assume anything to make that claim? I don’t have to speculate as to how the fight happened. I can instead look at what we do know happened and try to figure out motivations based off of behaviors. That won’t prove anything, but it gives us some solid ground to hypothesize what happened. It helps us surmise who was most likely the aggressor. Not proof, but the best that we can do.
I eat Spaghetti all the time without getting sauce on me. That doesn’t have much to do with a gun shot wound though. Check this out http://justice4juveniles.com/index.php?topic=37.0
A quote: “Back spatter is more commonly observed with close-range discharge of a firearm. The amount of back spatter is also affected by the type of weapon and ammunition and the anatomic features of the wound site. it may be absent due to the blocking effect of hair and clothing.” Eckert, W. G. (1997). Introduction to forensic sciences (2nd ed.). USA: Elsevier Science Publishing Company.
Seems possible for a close range gunshot to leave no blood spatter if clothing gets in the way. I still suspect there may be some trace amounts on George’s clothing (not enough to be visible from a photo or video), but wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t.
Do we know where in the chest Martin was shot? If it hit the sternum, I would expect less blood spatter than if it hit the heart, and it may also account for why there wasn’t any exit wound.
Also checkout: http://library-resources.cqu.edu.au/JFS/PDF/vol_28/iss_2/JFS282830437.pdf
“Back spatter rarely occurs with gunshots wounds of the abdomen or chest.
Experimentally, back spatter is produced only by contact or near contact gunshot discharge. A tight air seal between muzzle and impact site is not required but at distances of 2 to 3 mm back spatter is markedly reduced, and at distances over 1 cm back spatter is negligible.”
And “A variety of poorly defined factors may affect back spatter including caliber of the weapon, type of ammunition, barrel length, and anatomic features of the wound site. The presence of clothes or hair may impede droplet flight and reduce back spatter. ”
I’m just not convinced that we can assume much from George’s clothes and the lack of blood on them.
Point taken. However, i don’t know what the caliber of the gun was and if there were exit wounds. I will be glad to learn the forensic evidence at trial. I believe that there is suficient evidence to convict or the case would not have been filed.
Mayo – Rather then speculate about a cover-up initiated by George’s dad, I’m going to take the police at their word until proven different. I was referring to a sooner arrest after Corey took over, not the original police investigation. Cops can want to arrest someone or feel a certain way about a situation, it does not mean that there is evidence to do so. Perhaps Corey did find something which was overlooked or undervalued by the original officers, but we don’t know what she has, so we can’t really speculate on whether or not there was any shadiness with the original investigation.
You can believe the cops all you want until you have the experience that i have had with them, Pal! Just go and sit in court sometimes and you will see that they have their lies down pat! I was stopped for speeding once and I was asked the routine question”How fast were you going” and I said “The speed limit, but since my car is an old one, the speedometer may or may not be accurate.” In court, the cop said that I said that the speedometer was broken. Big difference! Who do you think that the “impartial” judge believed? Please! As a Private Investigator, i saw countless police reports in which the cops lied. or were incorrect and sloppy. Just look at the Zimmerman report. Is he White as the report says? Does he even look White? Mistake or deliberate? I don’t know but it is sloppy work in the least.. Take off your blinders!
@Mayo. Just saw your post that essentially says you believe all cops lie and that’s what they did here. Are you really reading what you post and have any idea how rediculous it sounds? Until you have proof, stop accusing the cops of lying and covering up. Don’t you realize that what you are doing is profiling? “He is a cop, in my experience cops lie, therefore he is a lying cop.”. Really? How would feel about this? “He is black, and high percentage of crimes are committed by blacks, therefore this guys is about to committ a crime. ” Rediculous!
No, not all cops lie but a lot of them do. Walk a mile in my shoes and then talk to me!
In most cases there will be no blood spatter from an entry wound. This is due to 2 factors. First the concussive force of the round hitting the skin tends to force the blood away from the impact point. Second the retraction of the entry hole after the round pierces the skin will temporally “seal” itself. This usually results in bleeding from an entry wound being delayed by anywhere from 3 to 10 seconds after being hit. (more than enough time to push a now limp body off of you).
In almost all gunshot wounds, blood spatter that is seen is from the exit wound which tends to be 5 to 10 times larger than the entry this will be moving way from the point of impact and not back toward it.
Most of this is conjecture though since we don’t have any data on the positions of Zimmerman or Martin (other than Zimmerman’s account) nor do we know what angle, attitude, and direction the round took prior to and after hitting Martin. This will be much more important in determining both Zimmerman’s and Martin’s positions and whether or not a self-defense condition would apply.
BTW my knowledge on bullet impacts comes from treating gunshot wounds as a Navy Medic
Forensics information:
Based on the power residue, lab report considers the gunshot to have been a “contact” wound. The autopsy determined “intermediate” range, which is 2-18 inches.
The bullet entered the left side of Martin’s chest and struck a lung and his heart. This is consistent with Zimmerman’s gun being holstered on the right, and one of the following scenarios based on the “Martin on top of Zimmerman” scenario which has been corroborated by witnesses:
1) Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots as Martin is punching with the left hand.
2) Martin attempts to take the weapon (with or without Zimmerman attempting to draw it) and they struggle for it, Zimmerman eventually shooting Martin.
Given the nature of Martin’s wound, his knuckle injury, and Zimmerman’s injuries, it is unlikely that a situation occurred in which there was no altercation. It is also unlikely that Zimmerman would stalk a suspicious 17 year-old who may or may not have a gun (“he has something in his hand”), while carrying his own gun, and the INSTIGATE a fight only to shoot the 17 year-old anyway.
It only adds up if Martin started the fight.
Pingback: The Facts and Zimmerman’s Story « Half Wisdom, Half Wit
@Half Wisdom Half Wit-Once again the real facts are thrown out and you make a bunch of presumtions and regurgitate various inaccurate news accounts. Your entire timeline, maps, etc. are someone’s account of whay “may” have happened. I have read stories that indicate Zimmerman was “returning” to his truck, as well as walking to the nearest street sign to better gage an address. He was NOT actually at his truck when confronted, accorinding to what I have read. What would you say to these stories? I can’t say if they are true or not, as inaccuracies are everywhere in the news media.
Maybe it’s just me, but I saw the video and can’t see how anyone can make anything out of it. Therefore, I put as much stock in that as I do comments from Mayo, which is ZERO.
No, we do not know that Zimmerman sustained that injury from falling to the ground or from a heand banning either. It could have been there already or it could have been from a blow from behind. As you said, who knows.
Sure, but i don’t get your point. Everone wants to make a big issue about whether or not he had head had injuries, and I think the evidence is pretty clear he did, if you only look at the police report. So why do we continue to debate this aspect?
I’ll tell you why…if Zimmerman lied about how he got those wounds and about having a broken nose, he is covering something up–his guilt, perhaps!
If, if, if with you Mayo. We could if this thing for years. Most people on this chat are simply looking at what we do know, buy you are ifing this and ifing that and convicting Zimmerman.
Like everyone else on here, I am offering man opinion. Take it or leave it.
I get it now. Zimerman was on the prowl to off some black kid. he called 911 or wherever and reported a suspicious character. He then chased down a high school football player who had a 1 to 2 minute head start. Cornered the kid with his weapon drawn, held him down when Trayvon started screaming he shot him, he then slammed his head into the concrete and smashed his nose for good measure. Makes perfect sense to me!!!
Did you see the blowup? Zimmerman’s head can be clearly seen then. Perhaps that would cure your apparent myopia.
No, I am asking why it matters? The police report indicates bleeding. The video shows the cops checking the back of his head. It could have ended up being minor cuts, but so what? If it were me, and I was getting beat up, I would not stop and say “hmmm, I wonder if he is only going to beat me up a little bit?”. No one would.
Oh, really?! So if you had a gun and were getting your ass whipped, you would shoot too, eh? I certainly hope that that is not what the world has come to! I’m 71 and we used to fight fair and then either shook hands afterwards or just left and went on with our lives and not tried to kill or inflict serious wounds! Is burlargy of goods worth a human life?! Gheez!
Oh right, I forgot. You think the police fabricated the police report and then were acting for the cameras by making sure they checked the back of his head. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.
Too bad that your pea-brain would come to such a conclusion.
Yep Mayo, that is right. I would shoot. In the time you speak of most people likely had the sense to know when to stop. Not these days.
Oooooh, my “pea brain”. You know, for being 71 you sure don’t seem to be very mature. If you want to debate any facts like adults, then I am all for it. For now, I will take my own advice I gave to Guru and stop responding to your ignorant and immature posts.
Good! You have nothing logical to say anyway!
@mayo, maybe when you were young fights ended like that. Where I grew up you tried not to win too many fights or else the loser would get a bat or pipe and do some serious damage to you. You also did not get into any altercations outside of your neighborhood. That was a good way to end up in the hospital or morgue.
We did not have many guns back then but if a guy you were arguing with suddenly ran upstairs you got out of dodge real quickly.
George said at his bond hearing that he thought Trayvon was more his age and not a teenager like in his original call to police.
George has one tough head, the screams last for about 45 seconds on one of the 911 calls. It took a few seconds for people to call 911 so the Savage Brutal beating that George got lasted for around a full minute.
Your nose gets broken and then you’re dropped by a 17 year old football player. He then starts repeatedly slamming your head into the concrete sidewalk but you’re tough. You don’t lose consciousness, good for that because you can still scream for help. The skin on your head is still holding up pretty good despite being violently slammed into the concrete sidewalk.
After forty or so seconds of getting his head beaten into the sidewalk Zimmerman’s gun is finally exposed, Trayvon releases his head and goes for the gun but after having his nose broken and having his head beaten into the sidewalk in a fashion that would knock out or kill a average person he manages to keep Trayvon from grabbing it and manages to shoot him in the chest.
It’s like a bad wrestling match ending with a one punch knockout by Hulk Hogan.
George is “Scripting” from the beginning, “This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something.”.
Go out into public, don’t stress yourself out just drive around. Do you see people “Up to no good”, “On drugs” or “Something” ?
@bagworm- Let’s just stick to the facts. I am not following your post, as you are clearly writng about something you are imagining in your head. As I have said before, the exent of Zimmerman’s injuries is irrelevant. Doesn’t matter if they are on a matt in a high school gym. If someone is beating you and doesn not stop, how is one supposed to know how far it will go? You don’t, and therefore take action to defend yourself.
So, it is justifiable homicide to shoot someone who gets the best of you in a fight. eh? Please! You will learn that is not true when the trial comes to a conclusion.
” If someone is beating you and doesn not stop, how is one supposed to know how far it will go?” Good point you have there, since I would have no way of knowing how far things would go I guess I would have to use my imagination.
The extent of his injuries are very relevant to the case, George claimed that he had his nose broken and his head was being beaten into a concrete sidewalk. If medical evidence does not support his story something is wrong. Georges own testimony leaves you having to imagine a life or death struggle where one have to imagine him having to pull his gun and kill a seventeen year old.
I couldn’t possibly imagine George misrepresenting the truth to save himself.
Looking at the latest photo taken just after the shooting and reading Georges own words one can only concur that George has one tough head.
Locate crime scene on Google Earth, go to street view at the entrance and you can see where the mailboxes jut out from the clubhouse, this is where George says he first saw Trayvon. Street view does not go into the complex so come out of that and look at the complex from above.
Click onto the ruler at the top of the page and then select yards or feet and measure from the mailboxes to the sidewalk where Trayvon was killed. The most direct path to the sidewalk is right at 132 yards or 390 feet.
Somehow George ends up behind the building that Trayvon disappeared behind despite turning around to go back to his vehicle once Trayvon disappeared. If you dont want to go through the hassle of locating it on Google Earth try this.
George on the night of the shooting,
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:
He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
George on April 20, 2012
“I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. I did not know if he was armed or not,” Zimmerman said addressing Martin’s family directly.
I guess now that George has had time to think about it Trayvon looked like he was in his mid twenty’s. The story continues to evolve.
@bagworm – I still don’t quite understand your point about Zimmerman’s head. I think we can conclude that yes, he was bleeding from the back. Yes he feared for his life.
I have purposely refrained from trying to look a google maps. I would like to understand where all of this information came from, such as precise locations of the death, where the fight started, etc. I have not seen anything official, and therefore don’t want to get further tainted by someone elses version of whay “might” have happened. If you have an official source, then share it and I will form my own opinion.
As for Zimmerman’s input on the age of Trayvon, I don’t see how this is relevant to anything that occurred if you believe Zimmerman’s story. Whether is was late teens or a little younger than Martin doesn’t matter. But, I do question what he meant by saying that. He initially said late teens, but did he then form a different opinion after the call? Not sure, but I am sure we will eventually find out and see what Zimmerman has to say about it.
Here is the “Official” Florida concealed carry site, you might like the Lawful Self Defense section.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
@Just The Facts Please.
The maps are totally relevant, You can see where George first saw Trayvon by the clubhouse, if you haven’t read they have totally established where the shooting took place and the decedent was found and also you can find where Trayvon was going.
You can also find where George Zimmerman lived, imagine all of that without having to drive to Florida.
To find it on Google Earth search Sanford, Florida 1111 Retreat View Circle.
The link takes you to a Wiki page where you can also listen to what Georges father had to say based on what George told him.
Yes, I am sure the maps are relevant. What I am saying is i don’t think we know enough to trace through everything happened, at least based on officiall accounts. I can see how someone would take the map and make a guess of what “may” have happened, but it’s just a guess, and I prefer facts.
Philosophically how can I know that this really could have happened since I was not there and not an eye witness. Even if I thought I was there and watching it happen how would I know that it was really happening or if it was some altered state?
I am Bagworm slayer of Tiamat and I pronounce George Zimmerman not guilty due to the fact that it can not be proven that this event ever happened in this time space continuum or any other dimension.
I command the release of George Zimmerman if he really does exist.
@bagworm- I find interesting how you can’t address any of the facts that we do know, and you have no logical or coherent content with which to base your beliefs.
Ask any lawyer worth his salt and you will be told that “facts” do not necessary equal “truth.” Fact is, we don’t know the truth. Therefore, everybody’s opinion is just like, you know what, everybody has one. However, some stink more than others.
Yep Mayo, and yours stinks the most of all. A wretched stench of bitter old black man who was unablel to make something of his life because “the man” was always keeping him down. Must be nice to blame everything on the color of your skin. Great excuse.
Thanks for being so predictable.. I was sure that at least one lame comment would be directed at the stench emanating from my opinion.
Fact is, I have been very successful, thank you very much! My Dad was a self-made man who was a good role model for me and he made it in spite of the blatant Racism that he faced on a daily basis. His solution was to own his own businesses. Yes, he worked for others to make things happen but he never allowed adversity to discourage him.
But, we digress, and should stick to “just the facts” which are that a young boy is dead, a person has been held to answer and justice moves forward while Zimmerman remains in hiding until his outcome is determined in the courts. Until then, we can only engage in conjecture, cajoling and snide remarks.
I absolutely and unequivocally agree with you “Just The Facts Please”, well played my friend, well played.
You’re weapons are too powerful to me and my only wish is for you to accept me to be your servant.
Well played my friend…..
Adios.
Yep, I figured as much.
Pingback: Any blind Lady Justice sees race not a factor in Trayvon Martin shooting
Pingback: Any blind Lady Justice sees race not a factor in Trayvon Martin shooting | Sago
Pingback: Zimmerman on the ground taking punches to the face... - Page 22
Pingback: Z's First Court Appearance: He Lied Under Oath
@ Just The Facts Please, I saw that link last night and was going to put it up for you to see. I’m new at this blog stuff and this thing here is causing me to continually scroll to find stuff.
I haven’t wrote any actual blogs yet, the one you linked to has me very interested. I haven’t found any really supported data on where Zimmermans vehicle actuall was, what I read has it closer to the clubhouse but that is just speculation.
I have considered the scenario shown except the vehicle should have been on the other side of the street if George was leaving the complex.
George references the cut through which I would interpet as the sidewalk where the link says it was.
I really wish that we could work together on this and both use Google Earth and the measuring tool and discuss time and distance and phone records.
I would like a timeline where the time he started talking to and stopped talking to the girl was put into the timeline that Phoebe has provided us with and things on the link that you have provided us with.
Screw whatever the girl claims to have said with Trayvon but the time the call started and ended is relevant to the timeline
The link talks about rounding of the minutes but that only applies to billing, if you make two thirty second calls the correct call times show up on your bill but the calls count as one minute each as a general rule. It would be good to see the girls service providers policy on this.
Also there have been photos of the back of Georges head that have been said to have been taken three minutes after the shooting and before the police actually showed up. This has me interested if more photos were taken by this person and it could be added to the timeline.
http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic-photo-possible-evidence-shows-george-zimmermans-050145810–abc-news-topstories.html
It is the back of his head unless someone knew someone with the same jacket.
If you watch the video and look at reports of him going to court you will see some people say that he is in a blue uniform and some people say grey depending on the video one watches.
I went to Google Earth and used the measuring tool, on the link you provided one opinion has Trayvon going all the way home and then going back to where the confrontation was.
By my measuring it has Trayvon going around 320 yards in this scenario and George initially observing him from around 77 yards on a dark rainy night.
Thank you for your time addressing my comments to those who did regardless of our differences.
I just really want to see what happens when this goes to court, regardless there will be people disagreeing with the outcome.
I think that it’s best for me to get out of this and see what happens in court.
@bagworm- Thanks for you response. Sounds like you came to the same conclusion that I did, in that you can get a whole variety of different outcomes depending on someone’s “thought” of what may have happened. That is why I like the 911 call by itself, which to me is the purest evidence we have. I then take an open mind to see what comes out in “official” reports, as opposed to media. I have seen where the timelines have bee the same from two people using both the 911 call and the report from Martin’s girlfriend, yet with the blanks filled in differently. Just depends on someone’s reference at the time.
Did you check out the picture of Georges head? It was allegedly taken before the police got there. It is the same jacket the trim on the sleeves and everything matches. I used to work at my Aunts fabric shop and repaired sewing machine and going to fashion markets despite looking like a member of the Manson family. I could sell that jacket to Las Vegas Gold and Silver (a.k.a. Pawn Stars on The History Channel”.
I just want to see what happens in court.
I think everyone should kill each other and just get it over with.
He said “It’s f****** cold” under his breath NOT “f**** c***” God I hate how the media likes to warp the truth and say oops it was an accident, but let’s not try to correct it on tv because we don’t want to get embarrased and lose viewer ratings…ridiculous
I always thought it was pretty clear he said “punks”.
Stop the racism please, things could have been so much different, cant we all just get along?
Thank you so much for not banning me, I dedicate this video to you.
I’m sorry if the music is too modern for your tastes but from my calculations you were about seven years old when I was born but his case made me think about a old song.
I have like 11 guitars and various amplifiers, I’d be better off hacking out some tunes than blogging.
.
Why would you think I would ban you? And why dedicate this video to me? I was five when my husband was born, what’s your point?
Duh, thepoint is that I’m younger than you and acknowledge that you are slightly older than me and have seen shit that hapened before I was born and all that.
I used to have to go next door to watch a color TV.
It’s a respect hing.
Thank you for not banning me from posting.
Go to Francois Tremblay, The Prime Directive, I need to make up a new email address because of being banned from there.
It’s my first blog experience.
You are Pro Choice there or Pro Life there or Pro Abortion which is his term for forced abortions to cause the extinction of humans or at least a drastic reduction in the population.
i am all but banned from his page for asking how he would implement this and challenging him.
This is like the second blog I’ve been on, I’d rather practice guitar.
I dedicated it to you because I thought about it while looking at your blog responses and I thought that you might think it was a cool video.
I was going to put up “Heartbreaker by the Rolling Stones since you are slightly older than me.
To take the blog literally.
Yes, I agree that the blog has an unofficial transcript of the George Zimmerman 911 call.
The video isn’t that amusing.
I loved it! Funny stuff.
It was the band video for you.
It didn’t do this the first time, now it has a picture.
A guitar is more rewarding.
I’m clicking stuff and nothing happens.
Ok, it worked.
I’ve got my mouse set on one click stuff but when I try to paste here I have to do quick double click stuff to bring up menus.
Are you playing by yourself again?
Bagworm, I said “by” not “with” so get your mind out of the gutter! Your comment will not be viewed because of the vulgarity and personal nasty attack against me.
Phoebe53 your really going to base what comments are posted because what yourpersonal beliefs are? Thats what i find repulsive about this site i left my comment on my personal belief so im now done with this site untill someone replies please leave it just watch what happens i dont even care if everyone hates it because its the truth
I post every comment that’s made except the ones that are nasty and vulgar or nasty personal attacks against me.
I don’t agree with your last comment but I approved it anyway so what the hell’s your problem?
For any of you who are supporting Zimmerman, check this out, if you haven’t already heard.
(Let’s do the math, Total 204,000-remaining 150,000- spent on bail 5,000= 49,000 for living expenses divided by approx 3 months= over 16,000 a month, where the heck has he been living, on the French Riviera? And why would the selfish little bastard let his Father mortgage his house for the bail when he could have paid it himself?)
1. People donate, and George can do what he wishes with the money. Obviously, he is only hurting himself if he is not responsible with it.
2. I recently was on a 5 day business trip. Wtih air, hotel, car, and food my expense was $2500. Doing the simple math that comes to $45,000 over 3 months. Of course I was not buying a new airline ticket every 5 days, but hotel is the biggest expense, and we don’t stay at anything fancy at all. Does anyone know where George has been hiding? Is it friends, hotel? Did he have a car, place to cook?
But anyway, I always thought our bail system was stupid anyway. The bail should be set based on the alleged crime, not on the amount of money someone has. Set the bail, they pay it or not, and none of this 5% BS.
What? No comment on his Father mortgaging his house when he had the money to pay the bail himself? That right there should give you an inkling on what kind of person this guy is. I find that reprehensible.
The money was a legal defense fund.
I don’t see anything wrong with the bail system we currently have, the reason for the higher bail and the 5% or 10% down is, if you run then you’ll owe the higher amount, it’s just a deterrent. If they made you pay the top bail then most would not be able to pay it and will still be in jail which is a burden on the taxpayers, not to mention, a serious overcrowding problem.
Good point about the bail. I guess I don’t really understand how it works in the first place. But, doesn’t the 5% or 10% apply for everyone? And if so, isn’t the bail based on the crime and not what amount someone has? I still don’t get this aspect. As for the mortgage, I can’t speculate on why they did it that way. It seems like George and his dad are on good terms, so I don’t see this as an issue, as there could be dozens of reasons why they did it the way they did. I really have no idea, and is that blue text from CNN? Has this been confirmed? I checked another website and it says:
“O’Mara said Zimmerman’s family used $5,000 from the website as well as a second mortgage on their home to bail him out. ”
Here it doesn’t say it was his fathers home.
As for the living expenses, I would need more info exactly how the money if being used, and I have not looked at the website to see how they indicated donations would be used, but it seems applicable to me if a guy can’t work and can’t go home. Having money to live is part of the defense.
The blue text is my comment.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/04/20/45813.htm as well as in other news stories.
“Zimmerman’s parents get to put up $15,000 to be with their son.”
“Zimmerman’s father said he would take out a second mortgage on his home to post the bond.”
The bail is based on the crime but also on the likelihood that the defendant will show up for trial. In my opinion, he got a very low bail based on the crime.
You are right, and I mispoke.The bail is based on the crime AND the likihood of a person to run. In this case, the guy turned himself in. I don’t have any comparable reference to say if the bail is too high or too low.
What is appalling to me is that so many people are willing to donate money to help this murderer! I wouldn’t give he the sweat from my ass!
Don’t worry Mayo, my second donation had your name attached to it.
@Just the Facts Now that was just wrong. snicker
Pingback: Trayvon / Media - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating
Just the Facts Please April 29, 2012 @ 1:04 PM
Don’t worry Mayo, my second donation had your name attached to it.
How much did you donate? I want to claim the deduction on my taxes!
He DID NOT say coon, he said punks. Talk about prejudiced.
Pingback: Will Trayvon Martin autopsy findings cause problems for Obama? - Page 7 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Pingback: DeeDee's troubling testimony to the prosecution - Page 28
Pingback: George Zimmerman's bloody head - Page 162 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Pingback: The Trayvon Martin Case, Update 7: The Evolving Narrative Crumbles « Stately McDaniel Manor
Pingback: What if Zimmermann Walks? - Page 15
My question is this, if Trayvon Martin felt his life was in danger why didn’t he have his girlfriend call 911 or he himself call 911 or even go to a near by house? And I too heard that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon and was scared to say his address loudly. All of us need to stop being the jury on this in public. Truth be told none of us were there and we really do not have that right to judge based on what evidence is shown through media, which by the way gets facts wrong more times than not!!
When Zimmerman said “fucking coons”, the dispatcher should have immediately said, “I heard you say “fucking coons” and if you hurt that boy, you’re going to be in BIG trouble.” That would have prevented Trayvon’s murder. Instead, the dispatcher was a spineless automaton. People have to change the way they react.
Zimmerman did the right thing to shoot him the kid had several records and he was alone and he was only out because he was expelled from school all the photo’s the media provided were several years old to make another nigger look inocent now i dont have a problem with african americans its just i have them seperated theres niggers and the african americans, the niggers are the ones who are robbers and little punks with records that live off welfare checks because their to stupid and lazy to get off their ass and get an education and i know white people and every other race does it to im just pointing them out in this instance because of the subject the african americans are the ones who actually have a job or have a good reason to be on welfare and live like a normal person now this little punk that was shot is a nigger, even zimmerman is part black but he has a job (A.K.A, neighborhood watchman) if you dissagree thats fine but the media lied and anyone who supports treyvons cause is lying to themselves saying he was a good kid.
Your displayed intellectual capacity is below the level required for civil discourse.
It’s never the “right” thing to kill someone. It may sometimes be necessary to defend oneself or others, but it is never “right”.
I will refer you to an instance of injustice in American history. John Wilkes Booth shot President Abraham Lincoln at Ford’s Theatre. Subsequently, after his escape, he broke his leg. He and a co-conspirator visited the home of a doctor. The doctor prepared a makeshift splint, and Booth stayed the night at the doctor’s home.
The doctor was later tried as part of the conspiracy trial, and convicted. He was later pardoned, and able to resume his medical practice, but the media of the day had already repeatedly committed libel against him, and ruined his name.
Where is the injustice? I’ll give you a hint. It wasn’t committed by the doctor. The doctor’s name? Samuel Mudd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Mudd
What records did Trayvon have?
Has anyone discussed the FACT that the 911 operator told Zimmerman he did not need to follow Martin?
Yes. Repeatedly. We’ve also pointed out the FACT that Zimmerman was running well before the operator told him he did not need to follow Martin, and that he stopped after the operator told him to. We also noted that Martin had at least a minute and a half lead on Zimmerman and yet, for some reason, though he’s “really scared”, he only gets less than 60 yards away from the person he was so scared of.
Pingback: Zimmerman's Wife Arrested-Charged With Perjury - Page 45
Pingback: Z's Wife Busted 4 Perjury II - Page 12
The bottom line is that just about anybody worried about being attacked would have stayed in their cars, doors usually locked when you have the car in drive and/or park.
So he is actually talking to a dispatcher in his car, then decides to open unlock his car door, open it and whatever from there.
To leave a safe place for any reason, when the cops know there is a problem takes away any excuse of self-defense, George could have claimed had he stayed in his car and Trayvon started smashing his windows in, he would have had a right to shoot him.
But to use how many lumps he had on his head and who screamed for head after George left his car is pretty much counterfeit.
The court will have to decide why George left the safety of his car to murder Trayvon, what compelled him to open that car door?
Honestly, which one of you would have opened the car door if you felt you would be attacked within supposedly an inch of your life?
No one would. And anyone that would have been beaten like that would have been taken to the hospital as soon as possible,
Was Trayvon innocent? Probably not, he was young. Young people don’t like being told anything, but did he deserve to die for that? No, Zimmerman was the adult, safe in a car. He should have known better.
You forgot to include that GZ is heard talking to another person around the time 3:17, saying something to the effect of, I think he ran that way. Listen to it closely when he mentions the truck. Perhaps the witness who once claimed there was three shadows running was right.
Pingback: Is George Zimmerman a racist? - Page 7
Pingback: Zimmerman waives right to Stand Your Ground Hearing Part II - Page 12 (politics)
Pingback: O’Mara Gets Off the Stick | The JB Mission
Pingback: Top News Stories Police Officer Fired For Offering Fellow Cops Trayvon Martin Target For Shooting Orlando Sentinel | Top News Stories
Pingback: George Zimmerman will walk free, burden of proof too high | The Conservative Papers
Pingback: Top News Stories Transcript Of Long Missing Womans 911 Call Abc News | Top News Stories
Pingback: jury selection in zimmerman trial - Page 27 - Defending The Truth Political Forum
“Zimmerman: Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.”
I caught that when they played the recording in court.
If a guy is robbing a 7-11with a gun and the clerk ends up beating the sh1t out of him he can’t shoot him and then claim self defense or stand your ground. It doesn’t matter who is on top.
Zimmerman followed the boy in his car.
Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman apparently out of fear.
Trayvon mentioned to a friend on the phone that someone was following him.
Zimmerman Left his car to follow the boy while armed with a gun.
Zimmerman stated to the dispatcher “they always get away”.
The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow the boy.
Are we to believe that the individual who was the aggressor through out this incident stop short of attempting to detain Trayvon?
Or…….
Does the circumstantial evidence support the scenario in which Zimmerman’s final action was to attempt to detain Trayvon until the police arrived.
Who was on top doesn’t matter just as it would not matter at the 7-11.
But Zimmerman wasn’t robbing a 7-11 you say? Well in the scenario where Zimmerman attempted to detain Trayvon which is most likely given the totality of the evidence he was committing a crime while armed, plain and simple. Just like the 7-11 robber. And when Zimmerman got his jazz handed to him he had no legal right to self defense or stand your ground.
Pingback: The Official Zimmerman Trial thread. - Page 249 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I find it hard to believe a person would be prowling at night in the rain, but the rain would explain wearing. A hoodie, the fact Zimmerman called Martin a coon from what I interpret is a direct racial slur…! Zimmerman disregarded neighborhood watch ruless as well as the police request not to follow Martin, all the circumstances seem to me that Zimmerman had. Agenda to take police matters in his own hands, as for Martin confronting Zimmerman, tell me how many people would let a unidentifies stranger follow them to their homes, it would have been best that Martin call the police at the time but it may not have occured to him, after all from the history of police in that area, they have a record of being more protective of whites then the black population, I wonder just how many similar cases they have swept under the rug in the past, that is exactly what they attempted to do in this case, especilly by giving Zimmerman his freedom so soon after the killing, that shows police there are use to not following up on these cases, automaticly assuming the victims are unwanted and have no family or loved ones. If Zimmerman never had followed him, martin would be alive today
You’re clueless. Zimmerman NEVER called Martin a coon, listen to the 911 call. Stop making stupid assumptions based on what the media had said and base your opinion on FACTS, which I did and came to a whole different conclusion from what I first had after hearing testimony. The only crime committed was by Trayvon when he assaulted Zimmerman.
Has anyone even bothered to mention the fact that an NBC affiliate WTVJ FIRED Jeff Burnside for altering the 911 call played on air? According to the SFLTV report, an insider said several employees at NBC Miami and NBC news including an editor or photographer were questioned before the network concluded Burnside was ultimately responsible for the misleading edits of the audio on NBC Miami’s clip and fired him. Also, a Today Show producer (Lilia Luciano) ALSO based in Miami, altered the 911 tape ( and THAT altered tape is what the nation first heard and where determinations and public opinion was formed) inflaming an already emotional issue? These producers were subsequently fired, of course. However, how many people are even AWARE that this happened? The media lie like thieves and then print the corrections where no one will see them. It’s really a dirty business – but thankfully, there are people who catch these things and bring them into the light of day. If you heard the altered 911 calls, it *might* explain your reluctance to accept the verdict. One news outlet states: “There was speculation earlier today that Today show producer might have been the person responsible for the edit, which portrayed Zimmerman as a racist, or having a racial motive in shooting Trayvon Martin.” I believe in justice… but justice cannot be had when our media are lying through their teeth and creating an atmosphere where they’ve poisoned the waters.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/third-nbc-producer-fired-over-a-second-george-zimmerman-911-tape-edit/
We all know, it’s been discussed on other posts and forums. This post is only concerning the factual police call.
Yeah, “coon” is a product of already assuming that race was an issue. The word is “unintelligible” and it’s only speculation to guess what was said there.
But I am most annoyed by the continued insistence that Zimmerman disregarded rules or orders. The Neighborhood Watch rules state that you don’t engage or confront the suspect. Just chasing after a person is not enough to understand someone’s motives for doing so. We have no idea whether he intended to confront Martin or not. But by the fact that he stopped when the operator told him he didn’t need to chase after him makes me think that he never really intended to catch Martin or confront him in any way. And that’s the next point. The police request to not follow Martin was never disregarded or ignored. You can hear it on the 911 call – read it! It’s on this page. He was already running when the police told him he didn’t need to follow, and he stopped shortly afterwards, and he then stood or walked around talking with the operator for another minute with no indication that he was running or chasing anyone. That’s following the directions of the operator. After that minute long pause with the operator, and coming from the place that the burglars “always get away”, who can reasonably assume that Zimmerman thought he had any chance of seeing Martin again? Hence, he could not have been trying to take police matters into his own hands – in fact, the call to the 911 operator negates that assumption anyway. Who takes the law into their own hands and at the same time calls for the law to come and help? What vigilante makes plans to shortly meet up with the police, and then goes and takes the law into his own hands? Doesn’t make sense.
I’m sorry, but home is safety. If someone follows you to your home, and is trying to get in, then you have a clear right to defend yourself, call the cops and do what you can to protect yourself – paranoia about someone who is following you and whose intentions you don’t know shouldn’t be used as justification for violence – even if you think it’s in self-defense. Think if Martin had just gone into the house, with a key or by knocking and having his brother let him in, Zimmerman’s suspicions of him would have disappeared in that instance. If Martin just simply said, he’s going back to where he’s staying (no need to even tell him where that is). He was in the middle of a number of house in the evening time – the safest thing to do if you are feeling afraid is to bring attention to yourself, be loud and attract people’s attention. There’s no reason that Zimmerman should have been beaten, especially since there’s no indication that Zimmerman harmed Martin until the gun shot. There are many ways that Martin could have handled this differently, and then he would still be alive today.
As far as calling the police, I don’t doubt that there’s a racial bias in the way that the law is enforced. That is not a reason though to beat someone that did not attack you. If he had all right to be there, then there wouldn’t have been any problem from the police. After you assault someone, well that’s a different story. Still, without the police, there are a number of ways that I can think of to resolve the situation without resorting to physical violence. You don’t have a right to preemptively strike someone – this isn’t the Iraq war. One needs to show that there was at least a threat of harm to yourself, and the evidence that Zimmerman actually threatened Martin is missing (doesn’t mean he didn’t, but that we cannot prove that he did).
FACT: 17 YEAR UNARMED KID IS DEAD!!
FACT: FOOL WALKS FREE FOR KILLING HIM!!
TO ALL OF YOU ON ZIMMERMAN’S SIDE IF HE WOULD OF KILLED YOUR CHILD OR LOVED ONES YOU WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO SAY!! THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHY PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS IN PUBLIC!!! A KID IS DEAD, NO MATTER WHO STARTED IT IT SHOULD OF NEVER HAPPEN!! RIP TRAYVON !!!
You’re not only clueless but stupid.
Irrelevant. The “Fool” walked free because a jury of his peers determined there wasn’t enough evidence to erase the reasonable doubt of the self-defense claim. A 17 year old unarmed kid is dead, because that “kid” thought the appropriate response to a person following him was to confront that person and attempt to beat them up. The founder of Aikido said that if you attack you have already lost. Martin did not understand the situation and acted rashly and that ended up with a bullet in his chest.
The truth is that KIDS DIE EVERYDAY from senseless violence. And they have since pre-history. Martin had a pretty nice life – where’s the outrage for the children who are beaten, molested, and abused by there caregivers and family? That’s happening every day, right now. They don’t deserve that abuse, they really did do nothing. Martin punched the shit out of a stranger because he got paranoid; when you attack someone and start a fight, there’s always the possibility you’ll lose and always the possibility that you will die. Apparently, that was a risk Martin was willing to take, and so I can’t really feel sorry for him.
In addition Vicki, where’s your outrage that 4 children were shot in Chicago while the Zimmerman trial was going on?
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/four-children-gunned-down-chicago-during-zimmerman-trial
LIKE I SAID THIS SHOULDN’T OF HAPPEN AND YOU WASN’T THERE JUST LIKE I WOULDN’T AND WE DON’T KNOW WHO STARTED WHAT AND OF COURSE ZIMMERMAN IS GOING TO SPIN IT TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK GOOD!!
AND YES KIDS DO DIE EVERYDAY AND THATS NOT RIGHT EITHER!!
@ PHOEBE53 THIS CONVERSATION IS ABOUT TRAYON AND ZIMMERMAN
BUT OF COURSE THAT IS SAD AND SHOULDN’T OF HAPPEN EITHER BUT TO BE HONEST I DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT THAT!!
The point is, we don’t make a fuss over any other shootings and if the media, Obama, Holder and Al Sharpton hadn’t made this such a big issue all of this crap surrounding it would not have happened. This was a local matter which should have been handled locally just like every other situation of this sort.
Ok. I listened to the tape. George OBVIOUSLY stopped following Trayvon when the dispatcher told him he “didn’t need to do that”. The wind that was passing by the speaker of the phone ceased within seconds of the dispatcher’s suggestion the Zimmerman didn’t need to follow the subject. By the way it WASN’T a command. 911 dispatchers can’t GIVE commands.
I’m not sure what Zimmerman said after F***in’. CNN initially said he said coons but later determined he may have said “cold”. To me it sounds like “punks” NOT coons. But all of you racists (yes, anyone can be a racist, regardless of color) can continue to believe what you want. Pathetic.
Pingback: AG calls Martin killing an "unnecessary shooting" - Page 5 - HuntingNet.com Forums
Pingback: Black on black crime - Acceptable? - Page 4 - Defending The Truth Political Forum
Pingback: GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, THE SHADOW OF HIMMLER, CIA- MK ULTRA AND THE PROVIDENCE OF GOD | In Search of Black Assassins
Does anyone know the dispatchers name?